The 1950's Red Scare & The History of God in U.S. Government

6-27-02 | Tired of Taxes

[billbears]

But, as you can see, these religious slogans and practices were not adopted until much later during the Red Scare.

Did they have a 'Red Scare' we didn't know about in the 1700s?

Knowledge, morality, and religion being essential for the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education are to be forever encouraged."--Northwest Ordinance

[DJ MacWoW]

Many of you continue to assert that the Founders would've endorsed this mixture of God and government.

Actually, they did. Our countrys history is full of assertions that this is a God fearing nation.

"... True religion affords to government its surest support." George Washington.(Eidsmoe, p.124.)

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." George Washington.( Dr. Sterling Lacy, Valley of Decision (Dayspring Productions,Texarkana, TX) p.3)

Even the Courts backed this idea until 1947.

"... Offenses against religion and morality ... strike at the root of moral obligation, and weaken the security of the social ties ... this [First Amendment] declaration ... never meant to withdraw religion ...and with it the best sanctions of moral and social obligation from all consideration and notice of the law ..." Supreme Court, 1811.(People v. Ruggles; 8 Johns 546 (1811).

"It yet remains a problem to be solved in human affairs whether any free government can be permanent where the public worship of God, and the support of religion, constitute no part of the policy or duty of the state in any assignable shape." Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story.(Verna M. Hall and Rosalie J. Slater, The Bible and the Constitution)

"... For whatever strikes at the root of Christianity tends manifestly to the dissolution of civil government ... because it tends to corrupt the morals of the people, and to destroy good order." Supreme Court of New York, 1811.(People v. Ruggles; 8 Johns 546 (1811).

"... Religion ... must be considered as the foundation on which the whole structure rests ... In this age there can be no substitute for Christianity... the great conservative element on which we must rely for the purity and permanence of free institutions." Senate Judiciary Committee, 1853.( B.F. Morris, The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States (George W. Childs, Philadelphia, 1864)p. 318-329)

[VOA]

bump

[Wm Bach]

Any way you slice it, a public school teacher - who is a representative of the gov't - leading students in a taxpayer-funded institution in a Pledge that includes the words "under God" is establishing religion.

Bullsh*t! I can't be any more blunt than that. A teacher isn't establishing a religion. And even if he or she were to announce that Giaism was now the official religion of the classroom, she would not be in violation of the First Amendment which prohibits Congress alone from making laws which establish a religion or prevent the free exercise thereof.

You wouldn't want the same teacher to tell students there is no god, would you?

There are already many Crevos on this site who are up in arms over the fact that evolution is taught in those very same public schools, and whose tenents deny the existence of their God.

[Tired of Taxes]

"You did not tie the insertion of God into the pledge with the McCarthy hearings"

Americans were concerned (and rightly so) about the communism movement. Communist governments' outlawing of religious practices and so on was terrifying to the American public.

[Constitution Day]

As noted at the top of this thread, "In God We Trust" wasn't placed on our currency until the 50's.

Only partially correct.

The phrase first appeared on paper money in 1957, while it was first used on a coin during the War Between the States.

[Tired of Taxes]

There are already many Crevos on this site who are up in arms over the fact that evolution is taught in those very same public schools, and whose tenents deny the existence of their God.

The theory of evolution does not say that a "god" doesn't exist. However, point well taken. I don't think taxpayers should be forced to fund schools teaching evolution if their religion does not endorse it.

But that's not what this discussion is about.

When a taxpayer-funded government indoctrination center - called "public school" - has a teacher leading children in a pledge that questions their own beliefs, then they are indeed violating the First Amendment.

If there were a complete separation of school and state, this discussion wouldn't be taking place.

C'mon, just admit I'm right. :)

[VOA]

But, as you can see, these religious slogans and practices were not adopted
until much later during the Red Scare.

(Just a side-bar comment)
It may have been called The Red Scare, but it was a real threat.

People just need to see the PBS NOVA episode "Secrets, Lies and Atomic Spies".

It blew my mind to hear a documentary on PBS of all places say that at least
300 Soviet operatives were in the US Government and military, hear an interview with
Gus Hall, an atomic scientist who did give secrets to the Soviets, and to
hear that it's virtually a lock that Alger Hiss was a Soviet operative.

And to say that Tail-gunner Joe was right about the US government being infiltrated by
Soviet operatives...he just was wrong in the people he pointed his finger at, thanks to the
intelligence community withholding information from him.

If any thing, the threat today may be "closeted" elected atheists.
An atheistic advocate on the Micheael Medved Show claimed yesterday that he was
in contact with elected atheists around the country...but he refused to "out"
any of them.
I couldn't help wonder how many of them were among the Democratic Senators who
joined in that 99-0 vote for the Pledge yesterday.

[goodnesswins]

"Any way you slice it, a public school teacher - who is a representative of the gov't - leading students in a taxpayer-funded institution in a Pledge that includes the words "under God" is establishing religion. You wouldn't want the same teacher to tell students there is no god, would you?"

BS....Many administrators make teachers into "gods"....only today's "gods" are the god of sex, the god of the environment, the god of the nanny state.....yada yada yada

[Wm Bach]

If there were a complete separation of school and state, this discussion wouldn't be taking place.

There is no "separation of church and state" any more than there are "emanations of the penumbra" which establish a right to practice infanticide. It's a socialistic legal fiction. Only Congress is restrained from establishing an official state religion. The Republic cannot be seperate from God because it exists only under His divine Provinence. Individual Sovereigncy exists only so long as we possess divine worth. Remove God and human life has no more worth than mere chattel, to be worked and disposed of as expediency requires. The Republic is founded on the principle that we enjoy certain inaleinable rights proferred upon us by our Creator. No divinity means no individual sovereignty means no ultimate basis for mundane law means no Republic. We then have a mobocracy.

C'mon, just admit I'm right. :)

No, I am because the voices in my head tell me so.

[goodnesswins]

In regard to this topic....here's a quote from James Madison, "father of the Constitution"...

"We have staked the entire future of the American civilization not upon the power of governmnet but upon the capacity of the individual to govern himself, control himself, and sustain himself according to the Ten Commandments of God."

I believe because the power of government is TOO GREAT, we (man) are trying to insert what Madison referred to as our "capacity to .....sustain ...ourselves...according to the Ten Commandments of God."

If government wasn't so wrapped up in obliterating God from our public places....we wouldn't be having this outrage, IMHO.

[x]

You may have learned by now, that "Red Scare" and "commies" are polemical terms that carry more polemical freight than more neutral words would. Historicizing -- that is, putting into historical context -- the encounter of the US with Communism is probably inevitable. Slighting and caricaturing that confrontation isn't. The encounter or confrontation with Communism, and the revolutionary atheistic humanism that lay behind it, arguably was the great event of the 20th century. In any event, as one wouldn't speak of the 40s as a "Brown scare," why ridicule the 50s as a "Red Scare?" Especially since what was going on then was more serious than what happened in earlier "Red Scares." Even hard core anti-anti-Communists traditionally used "Red Scare" to apply to the Palmer Raids after WWI, and reserved "McCarthyism" for the post-WWII concern about Communists. That's a mistake too, but no point in going into that now.

"In God We Trust" was first put on coins in 1864. When it was taken off in 1907, congress required that it be put back on in 1908. In 1955 it was made mandatory on coinage and the next year it became the National Motto, which the Department of State confirmed in 1963. E Pluribus Unum is "a motto." More here.

Actually, I prefer "E pluribus unum." It sounds more ancient and mysterious, and doesn't suggest jokes about "all others pay cash."

[Texas_Jarhead]

Don't make you pull out my big book of American religiosity.

[Tired of Taxes]

I didn't mean to imply that the so-called "Red Scare" was without reason. I agree that McCarthy has been portrayed unfairly. However, the fear of anti-religious communism in 1950's America seems to have contributed to our gov't adopting so many religious slogans.

[Tired of Taxes]

I can post Founders' quotes from atheist sites, too, supporting the atheist position. But, it doesn't address the heart of the matter, which is: The gov't is forcibly collecting money from taxpayers to fund indoctrination centers, enforcing truancy laws to try to force children to attend them, and then teaching children in complete contrast to the parents' religious - or nonreligious - beliefs.

So... whether you're a Christian who doesn't believe in the theory of evolution or an atheist who doesn't believe in a supernatural deity at all, the gov't is essentially violating the First Amendment by (1) teaching evolution theory to children if they're Christian or (2) compelling children to recite a pledge to a nation "under God" if they're atheists.

To me, the arguments are one in the same. It's just that simple.

[murdoog]

Most of us were probably saying: " ... one nation, invisible ... "

That, and wondering who this Richard Stans guy was and why there was a whole republic just for him.

[NYer]

Here are some other comments from our Founding Fathers

America's Founding Fathers
Statements in their own words

  "God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in
the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift of God? That they are not
to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I
reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever"

   Thomas Jefferson, 1781

---

  "We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that 'except the Lord
build the House, they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly believe this; and I also
believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel."

   Benjamin Franklin, a statement he maid at the Constitutional Convention,
    on June 28, 1787

---

  "I have tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty; through the merits of theLord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me."

   Alexander Hamilton's last dying words, July 12, 1804

---

  "This is all the inheritance I give to my dear family. The religion of Christ will
give them one which will make them rich indeed."

   Patrick Henry in Last Will and Testament, November 20, 1798

---

  "It is fit and becoming in all people, at all times, to acknowledge and revere 
the Supreme Government of God; to bow in humble submission to His
chastisement; to confess and deplore their sins and transgressions in the full
conviction that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; and to pray,
with all fervency and contrition, for the pardon of their past offenses, and for a blessing upon their present and prospective action."

   Abraham Lincoln declaring a National Day of Prayer and Fasting following the Battle of Bull Run

---

  "We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the 
power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our 
political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon
the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to
sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

   James Madison The Father of the U.S. Constitution

---

  "It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge THE Providence of Almighty
God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and to humbly implore
His protection and favor."

   George Washington October 3, 1789 Proclaiming a National Day of Prayer and Thanksgiving

---

  "Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only
Law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts
there exhibited... What a paradise would this region be!"

   John Adams, 1756 (And for those of you who don't know who John Adams was, he was this nations second president)

---

  "If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on 
prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterity neglect its instructions
and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us
and bury all our glory in profound obscurity."

   Daniel Webster

---

  "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal. That
they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among
these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

   Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776

---

  "Our Laws and our Institutions must necessarily be based upon the teachings
of the Redeemer of Mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise;
and in this sense and to this extent, our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian."

   U.S. Supreme Court, 1892 decision

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[DJ MacWoW]

To me, the arguments are one in the same. It's just that simple.

No. It's not that simple. History is being twisted and changed to reflect a Socialist/Communist viewpoint. If they succeed, America ceases to be what the Founding Fathers envisioned. We're on that road now.

[Tired of Taxes]

Requiring children to attend a government-run school and recite any pledge IS socialist/communist.

[PatrickHenry]

Requiring children to attend a government-run school and recite any pledge IS socialist/communist.

Now that you mention it, we should remember the philosophical origin of government schools, which can be found here: Manifesto of the Communist Party, by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, published in 1848. Among their recommendations are these:

The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state ... . Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property ... . These measures will, of course, be different in different countries. Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in he hands of the state.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

Look around. Any of this stuff sound familiar?