Emancipation Proclamation didn't end Slavery

Arkansas Democrat-Gazette | 6-15-02 | THEMAN R. TAYLOR

[WhiskeyPapa]

Dr. Taylor is apparently after the same thing Dr. Lorenzo is:

Sensationalism.

Walt

[Non-Sequitur]

I don't think that the Army was using the same slave labor in 1871 that they started with for two reasons. One, construction on the fort began in 1846 and two, slavery ended in 1865.

[4CJ]

Lincoln knew the EP was unconstitutional and said as much. He issued it to prevent blacks from fighting for the Confederacy, or to cause them to fight for the North, and to revolt against the South.

Of course, with the majority of Southern men were off fighting, that would mean that Lincoln was condoning revolution against women, children and old men.

I did understand however, that my oath to preserve the constitution to the best of my ability, imposed upon me the duty of preserving, by every indispensable means, that government --- that nation --- of which that constitution was the organic law. Was it possible to lose the nation, and yet preserve the constitution? By general law life and limb must be protected; yet often a limb must be amputated to save a life; but a life is never wisely given to save a limb. I felt that measures, otherwise unconstitutional, might become lawful, by becoming indispensable to the preservation of the constitution, through the preservation of the nation. Right or wrong, I assumed this ground, and now avow it. I could not feel that, to the best of my ability, I had even tried to preserve the constitution, if, to save slavery, or any minor matter, I should permit the wreck of government, country, and Constitution all together.  When, early in the war, Gen. Fremont attempted military emancipation, I forbade it, because I did not then think it an indispensable necessity. When a little later, Gen. Cameron, then Secretary of War, suggested the arming of the blacks, I objected, because I did not yet think it an indispensable necessity. When, still later, Gen. Hunter attempted military emancipation, I again forbade it, because I did not yet think the indispensable necessity had come. When, in March, and May, and July 1862 I made earnest, and successive appeals to the border states to favor compensated emancipation, I believed the indispensable necessity for military emancipation, and arming the blacks would come, unless averted by that measure. They declined the proposition; and I was, in my best judgment, driven to the alternative of either surrendering the Union, and with it, the Constitution, or of laying strong hand upon the colored element. I chose the latter.
Abraham Lincoln, "To Albert G. Hodges", 4 Apr 1864, Collected Works Of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, Ed.), Vol VII, p. 281.

[Huck]

I don't recall seeing you around before. Your post was really well done all the way around.

[BikerNYC]

There is no justifiable cause to celebrate a myth...

Did you ever see that Simpsons episode where Lisa discovered that the town founder, Jebadiah Springfield, was a pirate and horrible person and was going to reveal it to all during the festivities and parade marking the founder's founding of the town?

She discovered that, sometimes, celebrations of myths are good because of what they do to those who do the celebrating. In the end, Lisa chose not to reveal her information and to let the town come together in a spirit of celebration, because the myth was more valuable to the town as a town than the truth.

Yes, there are good and justifiable reasons to celebrate a myth.

[BigNate]

Go there...Look at the pictures... Read the Plaque. It took a long time to build.

[Huck]

My understanding is that Fort Jefferson during and after the war was a prison. I'd like to see that plaque you describe.

[Non-Sequitur]

And where, from that letter, do you come to the conclusion that Lincoln was condoning revolution against women, children and old men? In fact there were no slave uprisings in the south during the war, perhaps because the southern leadership was terrified of that very thing and kept tens of thousands of able men out of the army and in state militias to protect against it.

[WhiskeyPapa]

4CJ posted this same letter on another thread. Of course the clear import of the letter is that Lincoln had -become- convinced that the EP -was- constitutional. You wonder who these neo-rebs are trying to fool.

I also in the other thread quoted the Conkling letter from August, 1863, where Lincoln states unequivocally that he had the power to issue the EP as commander in chief of the armed forces.

Yet 4CJ is on this thread now with the same skewed unsupported interpretation.

Walt

[robert0122]

On the contrary, Texas was part of the United States on June 19, 1865 and every day prior to that since she first petitioned for inclusion into the United States. The rebellion didn't change that.

A state is more than a political subdivision of a nation. Texas, a free, independent, sovereign nation, chose to become one of the united States. Later, Texas chose to dissolve that relationship. You can read the Texas Declaration of Seccession at http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/csa/texsec.htm

[Non-Sequitur]

I've read it. And in 1869 the U.S. Supreme Court determined that the Texas acts of secession were illegal and that Texas had never ceased to be a state.

[robert0122]

And in 1869 the U.S. Supreme Court determined that the Texas acts of secession were illegal and that Texas had never ceased to be a state.

Does that seem odd to you? The US Supreme Court deciding whether or not it's legal for a sovereign entity to leave? Do you think they might be just a little biased? Not to mention questions of jurisdiction.

The government derives its power to govern by the consent of the governed. If the people so governed choose to change their government, who can say no? The government must resort to military conquest and occupation, which is precisely what happened. The United States turned into simply a name, not an accurate description of our nation.

[lepton]

The 13th Amendment that ended slavery was shepherded through the Senate by Abraham Lincoln. When the amendment did not receive sufficient votes in the House to be sent to the states for ratification, Lincoln saw to it that emancipation was made a central point in the 1864 Republican platform. Because of this, Congress passed the amendment in January 1865 and sent it to the states. Without Lincoln's wholehearted support and tireless efforts the amendment wouldn't have been ratified. So it is in no way wrong to refer to him as 'The Great Emancipator'.

Yes, but THIS event, taken alone doesn't prove he was. What? You want people to quit living in a vacuum? :)

[Non-Sequitur]

I don't think it's odd at all. The Constitution gives the Suprem Court original jurisdiction in matters where a state is a party. In matters where acts of a state legislature conflict with the Constitution then it is the duty of the Supreme Court to rule on the legality of the state's actions. And in this case they ruled for Texas and determined that Texas had been a state even when in rebellion. The case was Texas v. White. The court ruled that the Texas acts of secession were illegal. And as for bias, since you disagree with the decision there is no way I will ever be able to convince you that the court wasn't biased.

[Aurelius]

BUMP

[stainlessbanner]

Lat: N 24 37' 38.2"
Long: W 82 52' 19.5"

Look for a big fort.

[Aurelius]

"There is only one history, and only one reality."

Just goes to show how wrong you can be. There are as many histories and as many realities as there are people to interpret them.

[Non-Sequitur]

It's red. Made out of brick. Can't miss it.

[BigNate]

It was used as a prison. They didn't completely finish construction until after the war. Like all Government projects, they just kept building, even if they didn't need it. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject (or any other) I just know what I read. Go there. It is worth the trip, even if you just go for birding.

[stainlessbanner]

Fort Jefferson was begun in 1846 to protect anchorages on the only shipping channel into the Gulf of Mexico. Building continued until 1875 with slaves of African extraction doing much of the construction under the direction of the US Army Corps of Engineers. As many as 40 million bricks were used for the inconceivably ambitious project.