FBI Begins Visiting Libraries

Associated Press ^ | June 24, 2002 | Christopher Newton

[Timesink]

Just imagine what is going to happen to the guy who checks out "The Anarchist's Cookbook".

Nothing, unless that guy is already under FBI suspicion of terrorist activities. The PATRIOT Act doesn't say the FBI can just waltz in the door of a library and say "Give us a list of everyone who has checked out book X in the past fifteen years." They can only ask for the records of a SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL, and only after receiving a warrant.

Don't start hanging out with Al-Qaida, and the FBI is never going to see your checkout list.

[grimalkin]

Nothing, unless that guy is already under FBI suspicion of terrorist activities. The PATRIOT Act doesn't say the FBI can just waltz in the door of a library and say "Give us a list of everyone who has checked out book X in the past fifteen years." They can only ask for the records of a SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL, and only after receiving a warrant.

You're exactly right on this point. They are scrutinizing specific individuals suspected of involvment with terrorists/terrorist organizations and yes, they *must* have a warrant.

Don't start hanging out with Al-Qaida, and the FBI is never going to see your checkout list

Good advice.

[Commie Basher]

Ashcroft = Reno.

Bush = Clinton

[Auntie Mame]

Since when is a LOCAL library under any obligation to a Federal agency?

Since they're handed a subpoena for records. The Patriot Act didn't change any law relating to producing records when served with a subpoena. I get the impression that the subpoena can be issued a little easier because of the Patriot Act and they may not have to notify the person (and thereby warn him or her) for whom they are looking at records, that's all.

Honestly, I find it hard to understand all the angst on this thread. This is a good thing. It certainly makes me realize the Feds aren't sitting around twiddling their thumbs. Sounds like whatever these terrorist types are doing in libraries, they're gonna have to find another venue.

[VA Advogado]

Since when is a LOCAL library under any obligation to a Federal agency?

They're under an obligation to the taxpayers.

[Fury]

Back to the point of the article, how does the FBI looking at library records violate the Bill of Rights? The Fourth Ammendment says you have a right to be secure in your person and property. Library records are not your property. Most public records are open to the public. If they aren't, that is by statute, not the Constitution.

Good point. What about private libraries, say at a private higher-ed institution? As I understand the Patriot Act, a subpoena is needed to access this information?

If for some reason, the FBI wanted to know why I was reading certain books, I would defer answering. The FBI having access to the information does not obligate you to answer why you checked out the books you did from the library.

[wcbtinman]

"The Patriot Act doesn't say the FBI can just waltz in the door and say..."

I'm suprised at you. You really should know better. When has a minor tecnicality like the LAW ever stopped an agency of the govt?

[general_re]

potentially the destruction of evidence in a criminal case

Oh, well. Any records that librarians keep are for their own convenience, not the FBI's. If they decide to keep no records at all, so be it.

[Viva Le Dissention]

Where are you getting the notion that this action by the FBI IS constitutional?

Similar case in CO regarding the DEA decided just this year.

http://www.courts.state.co.us/ supct/opinion/01SA205.doc

[galt-jw]

wake up sheeple

they will do ANYTHING EXCEPT close the borders, throw out foriegners, block visas

they will take YOUR rights, "for safety", but will not do the very thing that would ensure safety for all, because by so doing there would be little excuse to take away rights.

who needs conspiracy theories when the truth is self evident?

would you leave your doors and windows open at night and then be surprised when you are attacked? would your solution be to let everyone in, but just check up on them as they roam around your house?

this is absurd. that there is another agenda here is evidenced by the preposterous nature of their actions and inaction.

"ye shall know the tree by the fruit it bears"
this is the law of identity.

the identity of a thing is determined by its behavior, not its appearance.

[Japedo]

The Following are Excerpts out of the USA Patriot Act. Now please, Understand.. this is NOT just for al-qadia Terrorist.

SEC. 105. EXPANSION OF NATIONAL ELECTRONIC CRIME TASK FORCE INITIATIVE.
The Director of the United States Secret Service shall take appropriate actions to develop a national network of electronic crime task forces, based on the New York Electronic Crimes Task Force model, throughout the United States, for the purpose of preventing, detecting, and investigating various forms of electronic crimes, including potential terrorist attacks against critical infrastructure and financial payment systems

It also clearly states not to Profile Found here.

SEC. 102. SENSE OF CONGRESS CONDEMNING DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ARAB AND MUSLIM AMERICANS.
(a) FINDINGS- Congress makes the following findings:
(1) Arab Americans, Muslim Americans, and Americans from South Asia play a vital role in our Nation and are entitled to nothing less than the full rights of every American.
(2) The acts of violence that have been taken against Arab and Muslim Americans since the September 11, 2001, attacks against the United States should be and are condemned by all Americans who value freedom.
(3) The concept of individual responsibility for wrongdoing is sacrosanct in American society, and applies equally to all religious, racial, and ethnic groups.
(4) When American citizens commit acts of violence against those who are, or are perceived to be, of Arab or Muslim descent, they should be punished to the full extent of the law.
(5) Muslim Americans have become so fearful of harassment that many Muslim women are changing the way they dress to avoid becoming targets.
(6) Many Arab Americans and Muslim Americans have acted heroically during the attacks on the United States, including Mohammed Salman Hamdani, a 23-year-old New Yorker of Pakistani descent, who is believed to have gone to the World Trade Center to offer rescue assistance and is now missing

Now Please understand that this can be used against ANYONE for any given reason. These are very dangerous powers to be given to a agency that's never been held accountable for past crimes!!
Live Free or Die Trying

[Sabertooth]

...perhaps you can share with us all the provision of the constitution that allows MY taxpayer funded library to keep ANY documents in its possession secret?

Probably this one...

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

That's where the right to privacy comes in. Don't get me wrong, I do think the librarians are often wack-jobs, their insistence on pornographic access being just one example. But I think that library patrons have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

Am I OK with the FBI conducting searches with warrants of library records to combat terrorism? Yes.

Am I also concerned with what someone like Clinton might do with powers like that? Yes.

There's a lot of room for mixed feelings about some of the measures being taken to combat terror.

[cascademountaineer]

Robert Hanssen sez!!!

/A>

Hey you, American citizen, your the criminal! not people like me!

We dont need no steeenkin badges!

[EBUCK]

Yes is does. What books have you been reading lately? Chances are you are on a list of "un-desirables" already. Better start getting your books mail-order and anonymous to boot.

EBUCK

[EBUCK]

Slow down there speed-racer. Those same laws are protecting you and I as well. I say, profile, ethnic or otherwise makes no difference to me, the bastards and charge/convict/deport them on evidence of wrong doing. Researching their reading habits just opens the door for the thought police to keep tabs on US.

EBUCK

[EBUCK]

Good one parsy! Did you sent it off to the FBofIncompetence yet?

EBUCK

[EBUCK]

That is a stretch me-thinks. Pretty clever but if these guys can come and go as they please (as they obviously can) what makes anyone think they can't buck the library ID process and check books out under assumed identities? This tactic will be of very limited use to the investigations and will only serve to further our slipery slope decent into fascism.

EBUCK

[EBUCK]

Our constitution will be worthless if we fail to overcome those who plan to destroy us.

So we should go ahead and shred the Constitution in order to keep others from shredding the Constitution? Logic has merit, look into aquiring some.

EBUCK