According to Joe Hadenuf: Official Free Republic Position Parallels GOP On Immigration. No Big Deal

6/23/02 | Joe Hadenuf

[watcher1]

Deny the liberals a majority in the Senate. Deny them control of the Congress. Keep them out of the Whitehouse. Deny them control of your local governments.

Jim, the problem is that most of the immigrants vote for liberals/socialists. Just look at the big immigrant states like NY, IL and CA

Let's not even ask why the government allows illegals to overrun some parts of the country

[sarasmom]

Joe, I am very concerned about illegal immigration.I attribute this interest to the information available on this site.I am not interested in some other issues, which also receive large amounts of attention and debate on this forum.

Why would you be upset that Jim does not personally share our concern, when I have seen no overt attempts by moderators to limit anyones ability to freely form their own opinions?

I am not trying to start an argument with you.I am just curious why you feel Jim, or any other poster, must be held to some sort of litmus test on any particular issue? With the many troublesome issues facing this country, I personally would feel very suspicious of anyone who claimed to be knowledegable and profess deep interest about them all.

Lazamataz, dead and other humorous posters not included...Bless them.

[viaveritasvita]

I agree wholeheartedly with your post 25. However, without meaning to sound like a doomsayer, it's too late IMHO. I used to think we had a chance, that we could just inform the public of this threat in our midst (in a more organized and rational manner than, say, McCarthy) and we'd turn things around...until I realized how pervasive and long-standing the infiltration of communistic/socialistic ideology is in our country--the judicial system being one of the most infiltrated. On the other hand, if I had to name my second biggest concern, it would be immigration (both legal and illegal). I think they tie in (altho I also have major concerns about language, culture, etc.)--many of the current (past 30-40 years) immigrants were already communistic/socialistic when they entered the country or they leaned that way or they quickly became adherents because of what they're "entitled" to in our country under this ideology. You could have knocked me over with a feather when I realized there were commie/socialists in our White House! To say I was stunned is an understatement of biblical proportions. The obstruction of Bush judicial nominees is an indication of how important the commies in this country view the judiciary. But, again, I really think it's too late, altho we may be able to hold it at bay for a while. The horse is out of the barn, kiddo.

[Dales]

I don't think Joe's post was about criticizing Jim.

I think it was more about defining conservatism.

Is a person who:

1. Thinks that government is too big
2. Thinks taxes are too high
3. Thinks that judges should not legislate from the bench
4. Thinks that abortion is wrong
5. Thinks that individuals have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms
6. Thinks that the free market is generally the best solution to economic concerns
7. Thinks that the liberal mindset ensnares the poor in a self-perpetuating state of poverty
8. Thinks that communism and anarchism are two of the biggest threats to people
9. That local communities and states should have the right to self governance

Is such a person a conservative? Even if said person doesn't consider immigration a concern?

Or is that person not conservative?

[metesky]

Hey JR, if Free Republic doesn't have an official position how will Joe Hadenuf know what he's against?

[Torie]

Isn't the 17th amendment about the direct election of senators? I don't get the brohaha.

[neutrino]

I beleive that Nick Danger is exactly correct regarding the labor issue. We could stop illegal immigration tomorrow if we went after the employers aggressively. But we won't. Go to any construction site. Go to any restaurant or cafe...used to be, the bussers and cooks were largely Hispanic. Today, you can go to expensive restaurants and exclusive private clubs and at least some of the waitstaff will have notable difficulty understanding English. And then there are the hotels...

We can notice that convenience stores and hotels are largely owned and operated by (largely legal) immigrants - but why is this? Are they inherently better at the business than current US citizens? Or (as I suspect) are they simply occupying a niche that the US born have abandoned?

The other problem that Dales alludes too is that when one speaks of immigration, it will automatically get branded as racist. This isn't fair, and may well be due to Democrat demogogery on the issue - but that makes it no less real. And in today's society, being branded "racist" is one of the most fearsome charges one can face. It even has legal (both civil and criminal) consequences.

So even though immigration is a huge problem...and even though the loss of a common cultural background will change our nation utterly...I suspect that it is a battle that has already been lost. Nick Danger clearly sees the future...and Dales sees the present with equal accuracy.

[Joe Hadenuf]

No one in this government has any stomach to reform or stop this massive invasion by illegals. It's too late to get a handle on this problem without mass deportations and a complete sealing of all the borders and a moratorium on legal immigration.

A sad state of affairs.

People are too afraid to be called a racist so they ignore probably the single largest problem America faces.

You bet, to many that want to destroy our sovereignty and America itself, this is their preferred weapon of choice. And it has been very effective.

[Torie]

Jim, the problem is that most of the immigrants vote for liberals/socialists.

Is that a fact?

[rwfromkansas]

Since JR is not a racist, immigration is not a huge concern of his.

Neither is it of mine.

[Jim Robinson]

Yeah. I don't like VDARE or their approach to the issue and don't want their stuff on FR. Thanks

[cynicom]

viva...

As an adjunct to your post.

Did you know that in 1944, many of the people around FDR were urging him to cancel the election and suspend the constitution, because of "the war effort". Who were these people??? Outright communists to run of the mill socialists, including Henry Wallace who later ran for president on the "progressive" party ticket.

[VinnyTex]

Look HandJack, you're just pissed because Robinson isn't going to allow the Johny One Notes on this forum to take it over.

[Nick Danger]

Or maybe privatize Social Security and dismantle the multigenerational Ponzi Scheme once and for all... Then lock the borders down.

That wouldn't work either. The thing most people don't "get" about the Social Security Problem is that it isn't really about money. Even if every retiree reaching 65 in the year 2030 had a million dollars in stock, or land, or gold, or any other thing, we would still have the problem. It isn't about money. It's about the actual stuff that will be produced and consumed in the economy at that time. You can move money through time with bank accounts and stock markets, but you can't move food through time on that scale, or cars, or lots of other things. With so many workers, you get so much stuff. Having more money bidding on it just drives up prices unless you can bring in more workers to make more stuff. That's what the immigrants are: they're the "more workers" who will make the "more stuff." Without them, wealth in the form of stocks and bonds and whatnot is essentially illiquid: there won't be enough food and cars out there to buy, even if people have the money.

[Dales]

Yes it is.

I'll explain why I think it is a big deal in a little bit, since you asked. But real life is calling at the moment.

[Bullish]

You bet, to many that want to destroy our sovereignty and America itself, this is their preferred weapon of choice. And it has been very effective.

It's utterly rediculous to me that we are falling for this crap from the fascist liberals, who for some reason hate white-America.

[illstillbe]

I am *ping*ing my own self 'cuz I will either speak up or keep quiet ... these immigaration threads .... break my heart, they do ....

I'll think on it ....

[TheBattman]

The problem with your argument is that you think these immigrants are going to pay for all the old folks....The problem is, they take up far more resources than they provide. This negative impact does not pay for anything.

Combine this fact with the fact that our current LEGAL immigration is around a million a year. Illegal is estimated to be about the same. Even at levels from earlier in last century of 250,000 immigrants, our resources are stretched to the limit. You should really do some research on the subject, might I suggest:

http://www.numbersusa.com/inde x

I am a firm believer that immigration is what made our country great. Unfortunately, it's also the tool that will kill our country as well. How many of the immigrants to the US from 1800-1940 came expecting a free ride on the public teat? Free medical, education, welfare checks, their own country carved out of the US, etc? I would venture to guess hardly any.

Yes, there are still immigrants who come to the US with the intent to become hard working contributors to our society. Unfortunately, there is a vastly larger percentage now who come for the wrong reasons.

What's funny about your assertion is that your list of possible alternatives to immigration is actually what is likely to happen here WITH the massive immigration we are currently experiencing.

[Lazamataz]

With so many workers, you get so much stuff. Having more money bidding on it just drives up prices unless you can bring in more workers to make more stuff.

You are assuming constant productivity rates. I envision great increases in productivity. That's why this side of the equation does not bother me either.