[freeforall]

Thanks for a good post to MI.I would agree with you that some of us are " trying to impose a new definition of the left and the right on a social science".The reason for this is to advance the notion that a political spectrum should include classic Liberals and Libertarians.This would show the contrast to the statists.

Perhaps the historical model of the left/right is associated with the self interest of those who preserve it in the ivory towers.

The problem I think we might be having is not so much one of definitions as one of the classification of concepts.Perhaps we are using an incorrect genus.If the proper genus were used I think we would then be able to agree on the species that follow.

Perhaps the genus should not be Socialism.Perhaps Collectivism should be the genus and that Socialism,Communism,Facism and Nazism are the species.The other contrast would be Individualism as the genus with Libertarianism,Classic Liberalism etc as the species.

[stryker]

I very much agree. Yet, the traditional paradigm has value in that it can tell us which way our society is headed by looking for the warning signs that tend to go with either socialism or fascism. For instance, the attacks on Christianity, the forefathers, the teaching of traditional history, and the new tolerance where another person's opinions are not only to be tolerated but accepted as being as truthful as anyone else's, along with the teaching of cultural relativism, all indicate a very strong move toward socialism in the United States. In addition to these examples, we have the new idea that every persons welfare bears on the community purse--motorcycle helmets, bicycle helmet laws, seatbelt laws, drug laws, anti-smoking laws, anti-peanut laws, no tag ball, no tag period, take your Ritalin and don't get a recess, etc., such that every year we are greeted with another plethora of new regulatory legislation for our own good. Unfortunately, it is also making us a nation of convicted felons, and therefore, a nation of disarmed citizens.

The importance of knowing the direction of our drift is in defining the tactics to oppose it. As a firm anti-WOD person, I would usually not be found allied with the gun lobby and the anti-abortion lobby, but both are my allies now, as both oppose the socialist drift to which we are succumbing.

Thanks for the kind words and the wisdom to see that the two different paradigms are causing the confusion in this debate. I think it is hard for people on the right to grasp that Nazi's were from the right because of the horrible acts of the Germans. But none of us are without sin. The Christians have their inquisitions, the Jews persecuted the Christians, the left killed its' millions, the right its' six million. Let us all agree that if there are to be more deaths, they shall be in the name of freedom once and for all, and truly for all. The next state will have one order of business: protecting the individual from the state and from violence and theft from other citizens, period. Under that government, if we hear that the Bill of Rights is a living document, that judge is going to be a dead judge, the only capital crime.