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To: ClancyJ
"Do you think the family asked him to speak at the funeral so that he would say so and so is going to hell? Don't you think he knew what he was going to say? Or, as soon as he did decide - don't you think it would be appropriate for him to advise the family that he will be trashing the memory of their loved one? Or, is it supposed to be a surprise to all for the proper effect?"

Neither you nor I have any idea of the agreements made prior to this religious service. It is possible, that those who asked this minister to give the eulogy knew full well what he would say. I remind you that this is a very small community and the minister was an almost relative. So far all you have provided is an attack on this man's motivation without any evidence to support your assertations. If you'll return to the article in question, the facts in this matter are very sketchy and do not support any of your claims.

"Did he get to show the love of God during the ensuing fisticuffs?"

Irrelevent. The minister did not instigate the fisticuffs. The bible is full of stories of ministers and prophets whose only rewards for preaching the Word of God were stones, beatings, and death. Does that mean that they were not showing the "love of God"? Reflect on this before you reply, their words were also unpopular, emotionally upsetting, etc.

"A true man of God would have given a respectful goodbye, would not have judged the man and then could ask any that need to get right with God to do so and if they need help, he would be glad to work with them."

I suppose then that Christ was wrong when he chased the money changers from the temple or when he condemned the Pharisees? Should he not have been more "respectful", especially of their feelings? Shouldn't he have invited them to prayer meeting the next Wednesday instead of condemning them?

"I see no need to defend this preacher and I'm sure he is so sure he is in the right to be beyond hearing what any have to say. Yet, by his fruits we will know him. Looks like the fruits led to fisticuffs and a broken nose. Did any get right with God based on his words?"

If we are to know a man by his fruits, then using your standard, what are the fruits by which we should know Christ? He was subject to fisticuffs, whippings, and crucifiction because of his words and his message. Please note, I'm not saying this minister in Alabama is comparable to Christ. So do not accuse me of that because it is not my point. I am saying that this standard is not valid by pointing out that if this standard were applied to the words of Christ (or John the Baptist, or most other prophets and apostles), then their words must also be considered inappropriate.

174 posted on 06/23/2002 8:07:59 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: DugwayDuke; Yeti
You are deflecting this argument so that you can still claim the preacher is within his rights to choose to use a family as an example or not at his whim as no one should censor his sermons.

I agree with Yeti that the preacher was wrong. I don't think we are discussing the merits of going to court over it - we are discussing the fact that such actions are abusive, inconsiderate and mean spirited all in the name of saving other souls.

There are so many people that love to flaunt their goodness and the evilness of others at whatever cost covered by the claim that they are doing God's work. Funny that this effort so many times comes across as evil itself - mean-spirited, disrespectful of the hurt to innocent loved ones and leaving the lasting negative image in the minds of those innocents hurt by it. Yet they take such pride in their work for God and how "good" they themselves are.

I am just pointing out that this same action could have been done so much more effectively.

A preacher can easily provide a gentle service with respect to the loved ones, ignore the judgement calls as he is not the judge designated by God - but merely a preacher providing a funeral service as the dead is buried. God will handle all judgement but God also cares about those innocents listening to that preacher.

With love and caring shown instead of pompous self-righteousness by a minister, with an invitation to any wanting to make themselves right with God against the day they too will face meet their Maker, yet with no evaluation made on the life of the dead other than he was loved by >>>>> and the basics of his life, the family is not assaulted and given negative impressions of preachers - yet are comforted by God and the service as they go out to their lives. They know what the man was - they don't need it smeared in their faces. They just want the comforting that Jesus promised them in "blessed are the mourners for they shall be comforted".

Now - I believe that more are led to God through love than through fear. Why would any want to join with that preacher other than to find some other poor family that they can use as an example to show how "good" they are and how "evil" their loved dead were.

Do you think the funeral attendees like to point fingers at the dead, hurt the mourners so that they feel safer in their own salvation? If so, they are wrong and they are mean-spirited.

187 posted on 06/23/2002 12:12:02 PM PDT by ClancyJ
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