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Guns...For the Children
Sierra Times ^ | Lewis J. Goldberg

Posted on 06/21/2002 8:05:09 AM PDT by Sir Gawain

Guns...For the Children
By: Lewis J. Goldberg
Published 06. 20. 02 at 20:37 Sierra Time

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."

-- James Madison, The Federalist Papers

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."

--Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers

Roots

The Second Amendment sealed into the law of the land the fact that American society is a society that not only tolerates guns, but was built upon their ownership. The Colonials who fought in the Revolution did not run to the local armory to get an 'issue' weapon, they reached in their closets. Apparently this lesson is not lost on the advocates of 'more gun laws,' who do not want another revolution.

At the onset of the Revolution, citizen militia outnumbered Colonial 'Regulars' more than two to one, and of the 200,000-plus individuals that fought in the War, more than half were simply men grabbing their rifle and heading out the door.* The men who crafted the Bill of Rights understood and lived with these simple facts, and they included a codified, permanent acknowledgement of the right Thomas Jefferson articulated in the Declaration of Independence to "...alter or to abolish it [the existing government,] and to institute new Government..." And since 'government' is power, the only way to overcome power is with more power.

During Revolutionary times, it should be noted that while 'quality' may have varied, the citizen militia possessed the same design of firearm that the Redcoats had. Were the Colonials armed with swords, the British would have shot them to pieces. So easy it is to gaze wistfully at picture books depicting scenes of our own glorious revolution, and to be thankful for the sacrifice those brave men made, but likewise so willing to deny the living the same tools of honour taken for granted by the first Americans.

The 'Kill Me' Generation

Today's 'philosophical elite,' which is to say everyone with a paid voice, printed or recorded, from the media to the halls of Congress, is doing their level-best to drive the public into the suicide of disarmament. The fact that such nonsense sells is testimony to Santayana's maxim on the fate of men to relive history when it is ignored. The sheer suicide of 'weapon-free' societies is well documented, but like the smoker who reads the warning as he lights up, the facts make no difference [not to disparage smokers, as I plan to start smoking when I retire...it's a slow death, and I'll already be old.]

We have, in fact, become the 'kill me' generation. Anyone who can read should know that violent crime in the twin 'gun-free' paradises of England and Australia has gone up since the ban. When there is a power vacuum, someone will rush in to fill the void. Governments do it as they become more repressive against a timid population, and likewise criminals find easier prey in disarmed societies [and some may beg to understand the difference between the two situations.]

Regard the following:

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

The preceding quote is from Robert A. Heinlein's 1942 book, Beyond This Horizon in which Heinlein has a brief moment of common sense [or plagiarism, since the same thought is expressed, regarding the manners of the American South, in Alexis DeTocqueville's 1835 book Democracy in America.]

...Shall Not Be Infringed

The Bush Administration recently announced, through the Department of Justice, that henceforth the Second Amendment shall be interpreted as an individual right [as opposed to a collective right of 'militias' to bear arms, as had been the case since 1939.] Since during the time the Second Amendment was drafted, the 'militia' could have been any able-bodied male between 17 and 45... hence just about everyone [and when things get really bad, women, kids, and geezers start shooting too.] In any example of period writing, the right is clearly referred to as an individual right.

This means that Conservatives are rejoicing, no?

No.

Solicitor General Ted Olson also said that the right is "subject to reasonable restrictions designed to prevent possession by unfit persons or to restrict the possession of types of firearms that are particularly suited to criminal misuse."

Let's examine this interpretation by Mr. Olson. Breath deep and read together:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

One is left to wonder what purpose the phrase "shall not be infringed" has within the Amendment if the government [remember them?...they're the folks from whom the Second Amendment is supposed to protect the people.] Where does Mr. Olson get this concept? Expediency is the answer...the same type of expediency which the Amendment process was supposed to guard against.

"But-but-but....we can't let murderers and psychos have guns...in public...with decent folks like us! [tremble.grmfff.snort.]"

How long do you think murderers and psychos would last on the streets if all society was armed? Remember DeToqueville's observation? Here are some suggestions for Constitutional gun reform:

  • Assault Rifle Bans - All such restrictions should be struck from the books as unconstitutional. The public should be allowed to purchase any weapon they can afford. To be consistent, we may have to include nuclear...can't figure out how to stay true to the Constitution while banning government's ultimate weapon.

  • Convicted Felons - If a man cannot be trusted with a gun, they shouldn't let him out of prison.

  • Age Restrictions - If you can reach the counter, and Mom or Dad says its okay, then it should be legal to purchase a weapon at any age. In the old days, parents used to send their kids to the store to buy cigarettes too.

  • Waiting Periods - Get rid of them. The shiny new bazooka should be yours once the cash hits the counter.

  • Dealer's Licenses - Get rid of them too. It's an infringement, and an instrument of control.

  • Restraining Orders - It has become popular for judges to prohibit 'significant others' who are under a restraining order from their partners to own a firearm. This is a clear violation of the Constitution. Both partners should retain the right to own a gun, and the 'abused' one should have the good sense to kill the abuser if he comes 'a calling.

Which brings us back to the title of this essay, 'Guns...for the children.' And why not? It's Constitutional, and in a society that truly had its bearings straight, the parents would be armed, and their children would be brought up respecting firearms, and even...yes, even using them; for target shooting, hunting, and even, if need be, self defense.

The Second Amendment comes from a day in which the courts of law were the courts of last resort. The court of first resort was people working with each other to iron out their differences. There was a line of common decency when once crossed, got one of the parties killed or injured. Today's 'professional pinkunderwearmen' cringe at the thought of such behaviour, preferring instead the system which provides tens, or even hundreds of thousands of jobs in the prison and court systems, lines the pockets of attorneys, and babysits millions of people, who, in a better time, would have been weeded out of the gene pool by their own foolishness.

Many liberal-minded folk would remind us that we have emerged from the supposed barbarism illustrated in the preceding passage, and that for society to be truly peaceful, we must stay the course of progressivism and fight to eliminate all weaponry, that even the criminals won't have them. But then, that still leaves the biggest of history's criminals unchecked, and such is why the Second Amendment was conceived.


*All figures for Colonial and British troop strengths taken from the United States at War website.



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: banglist
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To: wardaddy
"Most of the felons I've known....pot smugglers mostly....are EXACTLY the kind of folks I want around me WTSHTF."

Well, I hope their problems don't come knockin' on YOUR door! FYI: Don't lecture me about livin' in the South, 'cause I'm a Southerner myself. Reckon we live on opposite sides of the tracks!

41 posted on 06/24/2002 5:19:20 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: El Gato
"True, but does the law against it stop any that want a firearm from having one? Besides even convicted felons are subject to the predation of other criminals, whether they have gone straight or not. It is immoral to remove such protections as they have in prison, while denying them the means to protect themselves."

All that Law does is give the Legal System another tool to put people away a little longer, once they re-offend. There aren't a lot of people in Society that are willing to hire ex-cons. It is almost inevitable that most of them will commit new crimes.

As for the morality of denying firearms to felons I guess that's a matter of opinion. Personally, I feel that all we'd really be doing is arming them to commit new crimes. There have to be consequences for those who choose to break the Law.

42 posted on 06/24/2002 5:26:51 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: Eagle Eye
"But you have your FEELINGS and I have my reasons. BTW, your home page makes it look as if you have a very thin skin and get your feeling hurt quite a bit. Odd thing for someone who invites flames."

You're probably one of the very jerks that I was talking about! Sorry to disappoint you, by taking my e-mail address off of my page. Guess you'll have to get your jollies by kicking your dog, or some other sick fashion.

FYI: I've got a very thick skin, and what's more- I don't give a damn what you think! You know what you can do with your opinion.

43 posted on 06/24/2002 5:35:21 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: TC Rider
Stainless is good.....heh heh
44 posted on 06/24/2002 5:55:11 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: Sir Gawain
There was a line of common decency when once crossed, got one of the parties killed or injured. Today's 'professional pinkunderwearmen' cringe at the thought of such behaviour, preferring instead the system ...

much the same reaction from today's un-professional brownunderwearmen; Dems and actors...

45 posted on 06/24/2002 5:58:40 AM PDT by packrat01
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To: wardaddy
I got ya - sometimes the pic would load, sometimes not; I had to refresh a few times. That's a cool picture. I saw a pic from skunkworks of the c130j fully loaded with almost all of it's arsenal firing. They say it actually stalls the plane when they all fire - that's some power!
46 posted on 06/24/2002 6:08:56 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: KentuckyWoman
An armed society is a polite society!!

BUMP

47 posted on 06/24/2002 6:21:30 AM PDT by Just another Joe
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To: Destructor
Sorry, I'm not one of those to whom you refer.

You post your FEELINGS, invite flames, then get your panties in a wad when someone sends heat your way.

Prissy people shouldn't express their FEELINGS about their fright of guns on gun threads.

48 posted on 06/24/2002 7:52:57 AM PDT by Eagle Eye
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To: Destructor
Personally, I feel that all we'd really be doing is arming them to commit new crimes

The FACTS are that criminals get guns regardless of the laws. "We" wouldn't be arming anyone, just giving 'permission' to those that wanted to arm themself for lawful means. That includes their families as well. Currently they are prohibited from having arms that the felon 'might' be able to get.

By the time we prohibit felons (and their families), anyone who has had psychological treatment (and their families), anyone with PAST misdemeanors that have been since upgraded to felony status (and their families), anyone involved in ANY domestic disturbance (and their families), or anyone else otherwise prohibited (and their families), we have eliminated a large part of the population from leaglly keeping and bearing arms. This in a country that says the the right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

Sorry if I hurt your FEELINGS.

49 posted on 06/24/2002 8:02:19 AM PDT by Eagle Eye
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To: Destructor; Eagle Eye
I believe felons who've done their time should not lose their RKBA. You do not feel that way. You are wrong.

Simple as that. LOL

BTW, Austin is barely Southern these days.

50 posted on 06/24/2002 9:42:28 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: wardaddy
"BTW, Austin is barely Southern these days."

Bullshit! We may be the Liberal armpit of the otherwise great State of Texas, but make no mistake about it- this is still the South! We have Confederate monuments all over town, and a firestorm of controversy surrounding each one! Texas was a part of the Confederacy, if you will recall your History. Austin is the Capital of the State of Texas. On that score- you are wrong!

51 posted on 06/24/2002 10:02:07 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: Destructor
I must confess....I do admire your ardent defense of Southerness in your fair city. I wouldn't dare quibble with that.

There's always some common ground to be found.

Regards

52 posted on 06/24/2002 10:08:27 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Eagle Eye
"Sorry, I'm not one of those to whom you refer."

No, you're jus a run of the mill @$$hole!

"You post your FEELINGS, invite flames, then get your panties in a wad when someone sends heat your way." Prissy people shouldn't express their FEELINGS about their fright of guns on gun threads."

I'm not afraid of guns. I'm a vet, and I own several guns. "Prissy people?" What exactly does that mean?

53 posted on 06/24/2002 10:08:42 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: wardaddy
Sorry man. As you know that's a point of pride!
54 posted on 06/24/2002 10:10:06 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: Eagle Eye
"By the time we prohibit felons (and their families), anyone who has had psychological treatment (and their families), anyone with PAST misdemeanors that have been since upgraded to felony status (and their families), anyone involved in ANY domestic disturbance (and their families), or anyone else otherwise prohibited (and their families), we have eliminated a large part of the population from leaglly keeping and bearing arms. This in a country that says the the right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED."

People that don't want to play by the rules should not enjoy the full measure of liberty! Personally, I don't want criminals and crazies walking around armed. Let them get a baseball bat to protect their families. They really should have thought of that before they broke the Law!

Do you really want to give the Liberals more ammunition to use against gun owners? Do you really want to see the Liberals pointing their collective fingers at ex-cons as examples of gun owners? Do you really want to raise the statistical number of "gun owners" that run afoul of the Law? I don't want the bottom layer of Society representing me as a gun owner. Their criminal misdeeds will cost us our Rights quicker than anything!!

55 posted on 06/24/2002 10:20:59 AM PDT by Destructor
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To: Sir Gawain
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Alarmed about the "gun nuts" and other freedom wackos the government allows to run loose?

Wish the government would just repeal the Second Amendment and confiscate all the guns because you believe sensible people shouldn't suffer because of some idiotic notion about some antiquated “right?”

While we can't take the guns away from the people, we CAN take the people (or at least SOME of them) away from their guns.

At CAMP GUNFREE, we have created an atmosphere of near-total tranquility where you and your family will experience the benefits of a GUN FREE environment.


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56 posted on 06/24/2002 11:55:25 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: Destructor
My commitment to 2A rights (...shall not be infringed) is not tempered by my fear of what the Liberals might think or say.

There may be case-by-case extreme situations where possession should be barred even if the person is not institutionalized. However that does not extend to general rules that deny entire classes of people a basic right.

The idea of denying rights to classes of people is a fairly recent development and, unfortuantely, embraced by those who value the mirage of security over their freedom and the freedoms of others.

If you hadn't noticed, more and more RKBA advocates are finding their voices and losing their fear of what our opponents might think or say.

Why should a nonviolent felon (ie embezzler, fish and game violator, tax evader) AUTOMATICALLY lose the RKBA? Should they also lose the right to free speech and worship? Should they be required to house soldiers? No.

Now, knowing damn well that anyone who really wants to get a gun and use it improperly can and will do so despite every law on the books, what jpurpose does the law do except make it tough on those who intend to follow the law and live peaceably? The law only restricts those who live by it, not those who intend to violate it.

57 posted on 06/24/2002 5:39:50 PM PDT by Eagle Eye
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To: Eagle Eye
"There may be case-by-case extreme situations where possession should be barred even if the person is not institutionalized."

I agree completely. There are plenty of real life cases like this hypothetical one that you have mentioned.

"However that does not extend to general rules that deny entire classes of people a basic right."

An entire class of bottom layer people that made the decision to live outside of the Law.

"The idea of denying rights to classes of people is a fairly recent development and, unfortuantely, embraced by those who value the mirage of security over their freedom and the freedoms of others."

I repeat my previous statement. I personally do not want my gun ownership associated with these individuals. I am a Law abiding citizen. They are not.

"If you hadn't noticed, more and more RKBA advocates are finding their voices and losing their fear of what our opponents might think or say."

I have noticed, and I'm glad to see it. Why does this mean that we should jeopardize the gains that we have made by associating ourselves (as gun owners) with a lawless class of individuals that will make us all look lawless? Why give our opponents more ammunition by welcoming the criminal element in to our camp, thereby making our statistics worse? Why give the gun control crowd that edge?

"Why should a nonviolent felon (ie embezzler, fish and game violator, tax evader) AUTOMATICALLY lose the RKBA? Should they also lose the right to free speech and worship? Should they be required to house soldiers? No."

As I have said before- nonviolent felons have a greater tendency to become violent felons. There aren't a lot of people that will hire an ex-con- violent or non-violent. In many cases the ex-con will return to a life of crime, because they don't have any other option. As a hunter, I don't want to be associated with poachers either. I play by the rules, and I shouldn't be penalized by association with people who don't abide by the Law.

Show me an example of someone being killed by another person who was speaking freely. Show me an example of someone that was killed by another person that was worshipping. Don't all Americans have the Right to LIFE, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? If your violent or non-violent felon has a gun and misuses it, then hasn't that individual violated another person's Rights? Like I said before there should be consequences for committing crime. With freedom goes responsibility.

58 posted on 06/25/2002 5:33:44 AM PDT by Destructor
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