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To: Lorianne
Who are all these women having sex with? Each other. You decry a lack of morals for women but not for men. That's the intractable Double Standard. Either promisuity is "wrong" for both men and women, or it is wrong for neither. Hypocrisy only weakens your message.

Hey there, Lorianne. I try not to be a hypocrite. I don't think it helps men to be promiscuous either! As a Christian, I really do believe (and I know this is radical for most) that sex is best reserved for marriage. My wife was a virgin when we married, and while I was not, I tried to be (and failed). In a deep sense, my wife had more to offer me in this regard than I her. I regret that, and value what she offered me. But it is nevertheless true that, on average, men are far more swayed by sex, by thoughts of sex. It is wired into them. Until recently in our society, women tried to use their own self control and virtue to help keep men's lust under control. Men knew that women wouldn't respect them if they just went after their bodies. Women knew to hold out to see if the man in question REALLY cared for her (enough to forego sex). Today, women have given that up for the most part. Men don't need to restrain themselves and most women never find out what the man really feels for her. Sex in the City is the greatest show because it illustrates this so clearly. Out looking for a committed man, the women on the show run from one date to another, bedding each man along the way. They've made themselves cheaper and subsequently attract cheap men. I'm not being hypocritical. I'm saying that men were always thugs (on average) sexually and women didn't used to be (on average). Now women (on average) are as well.

346 posted on 06/18/2002 1:38:37 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: yendu bwam
saving sex for marriage made sense in my parents day, the 60's, when most people married their high school sweethearts. Today sex and marriage are different. The social contract is the same but the expectations are different. People who respect themselves need not fear they are de-valuing themselves by engaging in pre marital sex. Who wants to marry a 40 year old virgin anyway.
349 posted on 06/18/2002 1:57:58 PM PDT by ffusco
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To: yendu bwam
I have to differ with one point you make--that the intense interest in sex is wired into men and they can't help it. I know this is a widely accepted belief, but I believe it is faulty and accounts for much of the ongoing conflict between men and women on sexual matters.

The intense sex drive is wired into both genders. But Western culture has traditionally required and depended on women maturing beyond this adolescent phase and using responsibility and restraint. In other cultures, women are considered the irrepressible sexual animals. Many Western women have in the last few decades simply followed the lead of men in refusing to take responsibility for their sexual thoughts, impulses and actions. Both genders have the God-given ability to rise above animalistic behavior.

I agree that society was better off when at least women exercised responsibility and maturity in sexual matters. But I pray for the day when our culture and most men realize that they have the ability to mature beyond the adolescent raging hormones level.

350 posted on 06/18/2002 1:58:25 PM PDT by djreece
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To: yendu bwam
Well, all I can say is I disagree. Both men and women are endowed by God with free will. They are responsible individually for their own actions and their consequences.

If we follow your logic, which seems to make women responsible for men's behaviour, we'll end up like some countries which stone women for adultery while the male component of the adulturous act is not punished at all. I'm not saying this is what you advocate, just that this is the trajectory of that type of logic.

Each man is responsible individually for his own sexual actions and his own morality. No one else. Ditto for women, each individually. No person is responsible for the moral decisions of another. Individual free will is our only claim to "humaness".

________________________

I also agree with you about shows like Sex in the City. These shows do not reflect the values of American women, they instead attempt to construct them. The same could be said about much pornography and the values of men.

There is an editorial/tutorial aspect to all media (including by the way the Bible). Media is used for communication of ideas and concepts and values. Porn is no different in this respect. It is only the message which is different in each form of media, but ultimately all media is broadcasting an idea or concept. All ideas/concepts are subject to criticism in our society.

What is most effective in our pluralistic free society is free and open exchange of ideas and counterering of ideas and concepts with other ideas and concepts. Therefore, criticism of porn (or TV shows) or ANY other media and the concepts held within them, is a valid pursuit.

Those who wish to shut down free exchange of and open criticism of various ideas and concepts in media are the true enemies of Free Speech.

355 posted on 06/18/2002 2:11:16 PM PDT by Lorianne
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