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To: yendu bwam
those that can rise above it lead freer and very frequently more happy lives.

An interesting assertion--and perhaps it's true. Easy to make such claims, but have you got any quantitative evidence to back it up? Or is this just anecdotal wisdom? Some blithely claim that liberation from society's suppresive norms leads to happier lives. Whom should we believe? Where's the evidence?

Please don't take this as too sarcastic. I only mean to point out that a lot of assertions are made in the course of these arguments. It's very hard to prove things one way or another. But each side argues (or implies) its way is inherently morally superior--whether or not there are unequivocable facts to back it up. Anyway--even if porn and lust are such pernicious scourges, I just can't believe they amount to much compared to other pressing problems. That's MY subjective viewpoint...no evidence to back it up...ok, nevermind.

128 posted on 06/17/2002 10:12:24 PM PDT by HassanBenSobar
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To: HassanBenSobar; yendu bwam; gcruse
An interesting assertion--and perhaps it's true. Easy to make such claims, but have you got any quantitative evidence to back it up?

Well, here is gcruse's post #48 and my post #74 that offer some quantitative evidence.

138 posted on 06/17/2002 10:20:16 PM PDT by Starwind
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To: HassanBenSobar
An interesting assertion--and perhaps it's true. Easy to make such claims, but have you got any quantitative evidence to back it up? Or is this just anecdotal wisdom?

Fair question. Those who give in greatly to sexual temptation pretty obviously end up the worse for it. Consider homosexual men who have anonymous sex with multiple partners in bathhouses. Many come down with AIDs and multiple other venereal diseases. Their lifespan is reduced. Men who commit adultery hurt others they usually care for. Do you not think Chelsea Clinton has been hurt deeply by her father's philandering? Do you think Clinton got enough from Lewinsky to trade for that pain caused? Those who spend inordinate amounts of time with porn (a not insignificant number of people) give up the alternative uses of that time (finding better jobs, getting more education, establishing better relationships, etc.). But the same is true for any vice. The glutton gives up freedom of mobility and health. The greedy man gives up the respect and care of his peers (e.g., Scrooge). THe man who smokes heavily may forfeit his life. I can't give you studies, but it is common sense (though many don't see this). Vices are the shackles which bind us. If freedom to not be bound by vice is not important to you, then while away your hours with your porn, or your drugs, or your alcohol. Your life, in the long run, will have less meaning and less value than it would have otherwise. And though vice is hard to resist, freedom from it can be exhilirating.

143 posted on 06/17/2002 10:24:18 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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