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To: Stavka2
The key is figuring out at what level casualties are no longer tolerable by the enemy and his will to fight starts to fade.

WW1, especially on the W. Front was not brutal enough...regardless of the casualties...why? Because the armies continued to fight and the societies continued to sacrifice. Verdun was brutal enough, to the point that the French army mutanied...that was a breaking point.

Yes, usually if a war is extremely bloody, people will look for a political settlement. However, your analysis fails to take into account the different values that are put on the lives of different groups of people. The British forces on the Western front of WWI is a good example of this phenomenon. The West Yorkshire regiment had working class men who had volunteered together from whole towns in its ranks. They and regiments like them saw some of the heaviest fighting.

The people who were profiting off the war (the arms manufacturers) and those who directed it (Field Marshal Haig etc) were aristocrats. The point is that the people suffering were working class and were perceived as "expendable" and those making the decisions and profiting from the war saw themselves as better than them and so had no sympathy for them.

Britain would never have pulled out of WW I no matter how large the losses got. Why? Because the aristocrats who directed the British Empire couldn't care less about the people doing the actual fighting and they were obessessed by the reputation of the Empire. If they had run out of young working class men then they would have sourced more men from the Empire to fill the gaps.

Russia was just as bad during WW I. Sadly this attitude seems to persist in Russia. I mean if the 5,000+ conscripts dying each year in your armed forces were from affluent families, or if they were women, then don't you think the Russian government would be bending over backwards to help them?

Do you remember the Russian woman I told you about who was glad that conscription didn't apply to her, but thought it was good that men are military trained? Well, she's back, she told me that her family were scraping together money to get one of their sons out of the draft. But when I asked her if she wanted conscription to end, she told me no, because it was good for the country.

The point here is some people just look after their own and couldn't care less about the plight of strangers. I have rarely come across this sort of hypocrisy among Britons, but two Russians out of three have shown it to me so far. I also read about a Russian mother who told a human rights researcher that conscription would 'make a man' out of her 18 year old son. I wonder how she will feel if he comes home in a zinc coffin, probably she will just be proud of her sacrifice.

This attitude is similar to that of the Palestinian mothers who are happy for their sons to die killing Israelis. Many "civilized" societies also seem to put a low value on the lives of their sons. Thus wars which mainly kill young men, no matter how brutally, or efficiently, are usually tolerated. However, when they target civilians and so kill people from more precious social groups: women, the affluent, middle-aged men, the elderly, etc then the war becomes far more politically dangerous to continue.

If the world was to end tomorrow I can imagine some newspaper producing a headline like: "World ends tomorrow, experts say: women and children hardest hit" Why do I say that? Because I've often heard politically correct politicians, pundits and psychologists in Britain, say things like women and children suffer most in war blah blah blah. When actually their group is the most protected from the brutal realities of war. You, of all people, should know it doesn't go without saying that every soldier has a girlfriend, or a wife waiting for him at home.

46 posted on 06/21/2002 12:34:56 PM PDT by David_H
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To: David_H
Well, you are wrong on WW1. Plain and simple. Germany and France and Russia were equally broken down as was Britian and so was Austro-Hungary...each countries armies mutanied after casualties kept growing and the war's end was not in sight. You claim to worry about the people but give them absolutely no credit. Revolt is something that happens quite often in those types of societies. Even the North during the American Civil War faced many draft and race riots because the people didn't want to fight.
47 posted on 06/21/2002 3:33:54 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: David_H
Total BS. That is why only veterans and contract soldiers and not conscripts were sent into Chechnya in '99 during the first, most bloody phase. That is also why artillery was given precidence, while your government criticized Russia hypocritically, to send men into Grozny's butchery. You draw your conclusions about society from a few people and make generalizations. Actually from the Brits I've known personally, I'd rank you below the French I've known personally, and definitly below the Germans....should that stand from my limited contact with British?
48 posted on 06/21/2002 3:37:29 PM PDT by Stavka2
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