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To: Stavka2
Yes, David, Mr. Scientist, I do have a limited experience with Higher Education: Limited to a business/economics degree and an engineering degree and work on my masters....you are soooooo right.

Then why are you so ready to pour scorn on someone who is "still at college"? I was not insulting your intelligence by making that comment. You are obviously a very intelligent man. Its just that military types tend to scorn anyone who is in University because they immediately think of hippies and peaceniks. I say that from bitter personal experience.

So, Russia is not the next to worst and South Africa is not the worst. Besides, every educated person (on the subject) knows that Columbia has the highest murder rate and that Jamaica is close behind.

The source I checked recently had South Africa down as the worst and Russia second. Although, it may not have been the most up to date data available.

Oh, but I bet you don't have to worry about such things in comfy urbantopia....well some of us do. And because of brutish people like myself, people like you are able to enjoy what you enjoy while down grading what we do or simply insulting it straight out.

As I said to you before my uncle and father were soldiers in the British army and my uncle served in Cyprus during the troubles. His best friend was shot dead there actually. Also they had friends who served in Northern Ireland and had to run the gauntlet of the IRA. I am well aware of the dangers that armies run fighting terrorists and guerillas. I simply maintain that when you use torture, false imprisonment etc against civilians to catch the terrorists, you risk encouraging sympathy for the terrorists.

43 posted on 06/20/2002 2:41:12 PM PDT by David_H
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To: David_H
You never said that you worked in a university, you just said that you were at the university....there fore, it is instantly assumed that you are a student, that's the standard default. As for hippie, no, I assume that most students, from personal experience, are not hippie peaceniks but are just incredibly naive after growing up in a sheltered world. Americans and W.Europeans are more often then not naive as it is about what the real world is like, anyways.

As for torture. It is a tool. Some times it is counter productive, some times it is the most important thing there is...just a matter of applying it properly. You see, when it comes to straight out wars, I believe in making them as brutal as possible...that way, you break your opponents will to fight. The key is figuring out at what level casualties are no longer tolerable by the enemy and his will to fight starts to fade. You don't want to over do it, especially if you are planning on annexing the territory...but you don't want to under do it either, because then you show either weakness and a lack of resolve to do what is needed...there fore the enemy continues in the hopes of victory or you kill a tolerable amount and the enemy continues to fight.

Examples of these are easy to find. Sherman's march through the South was so shocking and brutal it finally fractured society and South which had continously fielded armies in the field...as long as they didn't have to worry about home, collapsed.

WW1, especially on the W. Front was not brutal enough...regardless of the casualties...why? Because the armies continued to fight and the societies continued to sacrifice. Verdun was brutal enough, to the point that the French army mutanied...that was a breaking point.

The Germans used to much torture in Russia where the public hailed them at first as liberators....big mistake, and not enough in Serbia and Greece, where the population could absorb the deaths and continue to resist.

As cold blooded as this seems, it is a fine science, a balancing act, that is actually quite humane...why? Because if you get it wrong, you extend the conflict and actually cause much more suffering. You must strike so hard and brutalize the enemy physically and psychologically to such a degree that he looses the will to fight.

A final example is the Israelies...during the various wars, the Jews hit the Muslims with such force that the prick Islamics lost the will to fight...felt that Allah had abandoned them. It took them often several years to get the gonads and back bone up to start something again, and often by the next generation. Now, the Isrealies make these little gestures in the face of terrorism and the Islamics interpret this as a sign that they are winning and are effective. You must break their will. Example: target the terrorist's families. They want to celebrate in the streets? Well, see if they are still happy to encourage their kids to become bombs when a 240 kg bomb just dropped on their house and killed half of them....the rest will think twice, believe me. It worked just as well on Quidaffi...he's desperately trying to pull Libya out of the terrorism racket (and doing a good job) and has ever since Reagan bombed him and took out a large chunk of his immediate family.

Again, I, as an Orthodox Christian, do not rejoice in the slaughter of humanity, but as a professional soldier and studier of history, I quite well understand what must be done and am willing to do it.

45 posted on 06/21/2002 7:45:10 AM PDT by Stavka2
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