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To: Burkeman1; Stavka2
I still side with the Russians over the Chechyans. "300 years of brutal rule?" Please! The Russians brought a modicum of civilization to Chechyna were none had existed before! The Russians built Grozney! They built eveything in that land!

Oh yes, Russia may have "civilized" Chechnya, but at what cost? Sorry to bring up this inconvenient fact, but the entire population of Chechnya; men, women and children, were packed off to the Siberian Gulags. A third of the population died in those Gulags. Would you like Russia if it had done that to the American people?

Don't get me wrong, I don't support the tactics of Shamil Basayev and the late Khattab. However, the Chechens have good reason to hate the Russians. The fact that senior figures in the pro-Moscow Chechen puppet government resigned last July because of the severity of the Russian army's mistreatment of Chechen civilians, proves that Russia is still happy to employ heavy-handed methods.

What did we Russians ever bring them? Well besides the alphebat, education, roads, running water and flushing toilets, a lot.

Stavka, don't forget mass torture and genocide!

14 posted on 06/19/2002 2:14:04 PM PDT by David_H
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To: David_H
Well David Hunter, lets examine a few things. The Chechins continously raided into Russia and into Russian client states prompting more and more Russian Imperial involvement, until it was made obvious that the only way to control them was to absorb them.

As for the Gulags, they were not shipped to Gulags, Stalin went soft on them and sent them into exile not the Gulags...otherwise there would be a lot less Chechins. As for the transfer, in 24 hours 90% were gone with only 110 fatalities, mostly heart attacks....now as usual, lets do away with the half truths and examine why they were exiled: ACTIVE COOPERATION AND ALLIANCE with Hitler during the Nazi summer '42 campeign. See the interesting things History Brings up.

As for torture, if anything, we learned from them. Don't start the: they're from the third world and are always victems and are otherwise blameless, routine.

15 posted on 06/19/2002 2:20:49 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: David_H
ogrish.com-check it out. A young Russian soldier has his head slowly cut off by a group of Chechynans holding him down and they laugh about it. They sent this clip to his family and the Russian media.

Look- I have no doubt that our half westernized brothers in Russia are brutal. But look what they have to deal with! And when it comes down to brass tacs they are western and nominally Christian and the Chechynans are of Islam. Bush will not say that- but I am- It is a religious war. Christians, Jews, Hindus, and everyone else against a faith that preaches slaughter of non believers.

24 posted on 06/19/2002 5:39:21 PM PDT by Burkeman1
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