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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Every soldier who served the so-called CSA could have been hung under US law.

Wrong. No matter how many times you post this lie, it is still a lie. According to the revalent US Code the charge of treason only applies to persons owing allegiance to the US. The confederacy seceded and formed a soveregn, foreign country

The United States gets to decide who owes allegiance.

It's just too convenient by half to say that "oh, I don't owe allegiance any more." All of the so-called CSA soldiers had been US citizens. They didn't stop being US citizens just by firing on Old Glory.

The Constitution clearly defines treason as levying war on the United States.

Now under the extant conditions, these traitors would have to be tried in the state or state where the treason was committed. This is how John Brown was tried in Virginia. And that is why the trial of Jefferson Davis would also have to have been held in Virginia. That is where he committed treason -- In Virginia, and also in Montgomery, when the so-called capital of the so-called CSA was in Alabama.

But Lee, and his soldiers crossed into Maryland, and Pennsylvania. They could have been tried there, because they were definitely levying war on the United States.

Lee took pay from the United States AFTER he met with traitors in Virginia and after he agreed to take up arms against the United States. He DEFINITELY owed allegiance to the United States when he was guilty of treasonous acts.

Now some ignoramous is going to say that Lee was innocent because he wasn't tried. He wasn't tried because of the magnaminity of the victors, especially General Grant, who said that treason trials were precluded under the terms of the surrender at Appomattox.

But just saying that you no longer owe allegiance to the United States just to avoid the noose -- it doesn't work that way.

Walt

77 posted on 06/17/2002 8:25:47 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: WhiskeyPapa
The United States gets to decide who owes allegiance. It's just too convenient by half to say that "oh, I don't owe allegiance any more." All of the so-called CSA soldiers had been US citizens. They didn't stop being US citizens just by firing on Old Glory.

No. Citizenship is renouced by dissavowing allegiance or by swearing allegiance to another government.

The Constitution clearly defines treason as levying war on the United States.

According to US code (those laws made pursuant to the Constitution) treason can only be effected by citizens. I'll post the original section of code from 1790:

An Act for the Punishment of Certain Crimes against the United States (1 Stat. 112, 1790)

Section 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That if any person or persons, owing allegiance to the United States of America, shall levy war against them, or shall adhere to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, and shall be thereof convicted, on confession in open court, or on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act of the treason whereof he or they shall stand indicted, such person or persons shall be adjudged guilty of treason against the United States, and shall suffer death.

Need further explanation?
I have hitherto considered crimes, which wound the community through the sides of individuals: I now come to consider one which directly and immediately aims a stab at the vitals of the community herself. I mean treason against the United States ...

"Treason consists in levying war against the United States." In order to understand this proposition accurately and in all its parts, it may be necessary to give a full and precise answer to all the following questions. 1. What is meant by the expression "levying war?" 2. By whom may the war be levied? 3. Against whom must it be levied?"

"To each of these questions I mean to give an answer--if possible, a satisfactory answer; but not in the order, in which they are proposed. I begin with the second--by whom may the war spoken of be levied? It is such a war as constitutes treason. The answer then is this: the war must be levied by those who, while they levy it, are at the same time guilty of treason. This throws us back necessarily upon another question--who may commit treason against the United States? To this the answer is--those who owe obedience to their authority. But still another question rises before us--who are they that owe obedience to that authority? I answer-- those who receive protection from it. ... "

A traitor is hostile to his country"
James Wilson, "Of Crimes Immediately against the Community, Lectures on Law", The Works of James Wilson, Robert G. McCloskey - Editor, 1791, Vol II, pp. 663-669.

Lee took pay from the United States AFTER he met with traitors in Virginia and after he agreed to take up arms against the United States. He DEFINITELY owed allegiance to the United States when he was guilty of treasonous acts.

Wrong again. See above. His letter of resignation was placed into government hands before his acceptance of a commission in the Army of Virginia. Besides that, do you get paid in advance? When did Lee 1st raise his sword in defense of his state?

79 posted on 06/17/2002 10:11:03 AM PDT by 4CJ
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