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To: exmarine
"I don't hate people - but I hate their satanic hateful religion. If their essential religious beliefs call for my desruction, then their religion must be destroyed first!"

You can't destroy a religious belief without destroying the people who practice it. Islam is not an enemy of America. Wahhabi Islam is. If the Wahhabists can convince Americans that ALL Muslims are their enemy (all four billion of them) then they have achieved their goal. I don't see four billion suicide bombers or four billion terrorists, do you? If all Muslims hated us as much you seem to think they do, we would be in a lot worse throuble than we are now.

"This statement shows your utter ignorance about islam. All roads lead to heaven eh?"

I said all roads that lead to God are good roads.

"Islam claims Jesus Christ is not God, Christians claim He is. Islam claims that there is one God and He is not trinitarian, Christianity proclaims a Holy Trinity (Father, Son, Spirit). BOTH CANNOT BE TRUE. Get it? Do you think the REAL God values truth?"

Islam does not believe Christ is the Son of God. They believe He is a major Prophet. Christians believe Christ is the Son of God. The "God" Christians believe Christ is the Son of (God the Father) is the same God that Jews worship as Yahweh and Muslims worship as Allah. Yes, Muslims do not believe in a triune God, neither do modern Jews. I think God values people who try to keep His word as they understand it, lead decent lives, and treat their fellow human beings as they would wish themselves to be treated. Only God can understand real Truth. Being finite creatures with a finite mind, we are incapapble of understanding God or the Real Truth.

"Hitler was sincere in his beliefs; Stalin was sincere in his atheism; the muslim terrorists who murder women and children are certainly sincere in their beliefs."

Hitler, Stalin and the Islamic terrorists who kill civilians are psychopathic madmen. Would compare ALL Muslims to these people, creatures torn by hate against their fellow men?

"All roads DO NOT lead to heaven pal."

Right. All roads don't lead to heaven and I didn't say that. I said that all roads that lead to God are good roads. There are many roads which can lead to God and I disagree with an interpretation of God, Christ and Scripture in which an all-knowing, all-loving and all-merciful God condemns anyone who is not a Christian to eternal damnation.

In your certitude of religious feelings and intolerance of the beliefs of others, sincere as you are obvously are, you sound philosophically very much like the very people you so abhor.

129 posted on 06/17/2002 9:57:02 AM PDT by ZULU
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To: ZULU
You can't destroy a religious belief without destroying the people who practice it. Islam is not an enemy of America. Wahhabi Islam is.

You can repeat this mantra as many times as you want and it will be false every single time. Wahhabi islam IS fundamental islam. Period. Islam's founder was a violent warlike slave-holder who attacked caravans and forced people to convert. Sound familiar? Throughout history, Islam has attacked Christianity and other unsuspecting peoples - islam was spread by the sword, not by verbal persuasion! You need a lesson in history, not me. The attacks stopped for awhile when Christian Europe became more powerful than Islam in the 1600s, and after the death of the moribund Ottoman empire after WW I, islam became weak compared to the west and knew it would be clobbered if it attacked Christian nations. Strength is the only thing that will sway a fundamental muslim.

I think God values people who try to keep His word as they understand it, lead decent lives, and treat their fellow human beings as they would wish themselves to be treated.

It doesn't matter what you think, it only matters what Jesus Christ says. And He says that it does matter to God what people believe. Read the first commandment! Do not have 'ANY OTHER GODS BEFORE ME'. Jesus said that He alone is the way to heaven. So, the question you must resolve is: Is Jesus a liar or is He truly Lord?

131 posted on 06/17/2002 10:05:00 AM PDT by exmarine
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To: ZULU
In your certitude of religious feelings and intolerance of the beliefs of others, sincere as you are obvously are, you sound philosophically very much like the very people you so abhor.

Tolerance? I tolerate the beliefs of others - I allow them to believe what they want without attacking them as long as they don't attack me first (with force). Does this mean I have to AGREE with them? Are you saying that if I disagree with someone I am intolerant? You need to look up the defintion of tolerance in the dictionary. Tolerance requires disagreement! By your standards of tolerance, you are intolerant because you are not tolerant of MY beliefs! Am I allowed to have my own opinion - even if it does not match what is politically correct? You bet. This is America. Read the title of this website - FREE REPUBLIC. I may not be free to say these things in Iraq, but this is America pal. I spit on your idea of tolerance.

132 posted on 06/17/2002 10:09:57 AM PDT by exmarine
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To: ZULU
I disagree with an interpretation of God, Christ and Scripture in which an all-knowing, all-loving and all-merciful God condemns anyone who is not a Christian to eternal damnation.

The bible also disagrees with you. Which is more credible? The bible or you? The bible clearly states that one must be born again by putting their faith in Jesus Christ in order to be saved. There is no other way. If there was another way, God would not have sent Jesus Christ to die for the sins of the world, would he? The bible says that there "is none righteous, no not one" (romans 3:10) and that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (romans 3:23). God is Holy and perfect and good and sin cannot come into His presence. You may think you are a cdecent person, but you are mislead by your human perspective. From God's perspective, you are a fallen sinner and since God is also PERFECTLY JUST, He must punish you for your sins. Let me give you an analogy:

Suppose that you are a judge in the Superior Court for criminal trials, and suppose you had a son who stole a car and was caught red handed. Suppose he pleaded guilty, but was real sorrowful and remorseful (with tears). Would you still have to punish him? You bet you would - if you were a judge worth your salt! Now, imagine a perfectly just God - do you think He can just let you off? No way. Let's try another one:

There are a million ways to sin. In word (saying hateful things), in thought (lusting after another man's wife), or in deed (stealing or murdering). Also, one can sin by not doing something - not being kind enough, not praying every day, etc. So many ways to sin... We all sin many times a day, don't we? Now suppose I only sinned 3 times a day. That would add up to about 1000 sins a year and if I live 70 years, 70,000 sins in a lifetime. Do you think God will just accept my 70,000 sins? No, my friend, he won't. That is why He sent His son - to pay the penalty I could not pay - to die in my place! If you reject so great a salvation, do you really think you will be spared? Suppose you made a 3-egg omelette for some friends, and suppose one egg was rotten? Would they notice when they tasted it? You bet. By the same token, what makes you think you can serve up your sins to God and expect him to accept them?

133 posted on 06/17/2002 10:23:36 AM PDT by exmarine
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To: ZULU
Would compare ALL Muslims to these people, creatures torn by hate against their fellow men?

You need to read my posts again. I didn't say all muslims. Most muslims (80%) are nominal muslims - they do not practice fundamental islam. And most are probably peaceful people. But there is no denying that fundamental islam is bent on destroying the U.S. and other infidels and therefore it must be destroyed first. Islam is not peace. It is violence and death and its history proves it. Next time, try backing up your assertions with hard facts.

134 posted on 06/17/2002 10:26:08 AM PDT by exmarine
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