[tacticalogic]

If anything, I would say category two help lead to the category one results. If the government is corrupt, why should the citizens be any different, right?

I agree. Kevin seems to think it's the other way around, so I'm trying to determine if he can objectively support that theory.

[FreeTally]

I think what KC said could be possible, meaning in a society, it could turn out that way, but I don't think that applies to America as we see it today. FDR's "New Deal" paved the way for fast government corruption/usurptation of power and freedom, which IMHO, helped lead to the "decline" in "societal values" that we do see today.

[steve-b]

I agree. Kevin seems to think it's the other way around, so I'm trying to determine if he can objectively support that theory.

The various social pathologies which clearly rose after the entrenchement of the welfare state supports your version of cause and effect.

[steve-b]

I agree. Kevin seems to think it's the other way around, so I'm trying to determine if he can objectively support that theory.

The various social pathologies which clearly rose after the entrenchement of the welfare state supports your version of cause and effect.