Posted on 06/12/2002 12:00:31 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
ST. LOUIS - A former Southern Baptist Convention president stirred interfaith tumult when he described Muhammad, Islam's revered founder, as a "demon-possessed pedophile."
The Rev. Jerry Vines made the comments Monday night at the Southern Baptist Pastors Conference, drawing strong denunciation from Muslim leaders Tuesday when his statements were publicized.
But the Rev. Jack Graham, the new president of the Southern Baptist Convention, and the Rev. James Merritt, outgoing president, supported Vines.
Hodan Hassan, a spokeswoman for the Washington-based Council for American-Islamic Relations, said Vines' comments were divisive and inaccurate.
"This kind of hate-filled rhetoric is very shocking," Hassan said. "It is especially surprising to see it coming from someone of that stature making such a statement concerning a religion that is practiced by one-fifth of the world's population."
Vines, senior pastor of the First Baptist Church of Jacksonville, Fla., deplored the rising tide of pluralism.
"Today, people are saying all religions are the same," Vines said. "They would have us believe Islam is just as good as Christianity. But I'm here to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, that Islam is not as good as Christianity. Christianity was founded by the virgin-born Lord Jesus Christ. Islam was founded by Muhammad, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives and his last one was a 9-year-old girl."
Muslims maintain that they are the descendants of the Judeo-Christian progenitor Abraham and serve the same God as Jews and Christians, even though they call him Allah.
But Vines said: "Allah is not Jehovah. Jehovah is not going to turn you into a terrorist that'll try to bomb people and take the lives of thousands and thousands of people."
Hassan said, "I would hope that responsible people of the Southern Baptist Convention would deliver a strong denunciation of Reverend Vines' comments."
But during a news conference Tuesday, Graham quoted from Unveiling Islam, which was written by two former Muslims who are professors at conservative Baptist theological schools. Authors Ergun Caner, an assistant professor at Criswell College in Dallas, and Emir Caner, an assistant professor at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C., said Muhammad had numerous concubines and 13 wives, including the 9-year-old girl, Graham said.
Syad Ahsani of Arlington, Southwest regional chairman of the American Muslim Alliance, said Muhammad was betrothed to the child, which was a common practice; however, such marriages weren't consummated until children reached adolescence.
Hassan said it is not known when Muhammad's marriage was consummated.
Muhammad was involved in polygamy, but so were early Jewish leaders, others said.
Selod Faroog, an orthopedic surgeon and an Islamic spokesman in Fort Worth, said: "People who can't face the truth come out and make accusations like this. If Muhammad was heavily involved in multiple wives, he wouldn't have had time to spend all night praying like tradition says."
Reaction to Vines' comment came as the annual meeting formally began with about 9,600 messengers, or delegates. President Bush addressed the Baptists by satellite Tuesday morning, praising them for their belief that religion should not be separated from political life.
Later, 12 gay activists from the California-based SoulForce, perennial protesters at the convention, were arrested as they tried to disrupt Merritt's convention message. Some protesters shouted, "Please hear us. ... God loves his gay and lesbian children," before they were carried away by police and charged with trespassing motivated by religious discrimination.
Outside, 37 people were arrested when they refused to obey a police order not to turn away from the America's Center. They were charged with failing to obey a police officer.
Merritt worked the protesters into his sermon, saying they are examples of the nation's "culture war" going on in the nation.
"We love homosexuals," he said. "God loves homosexuals, but he loves them too much to leave them homosexuals."
Still, some Southern Baptists said Vines' comments could hurt efforts for Muslims and Christians to work together.
"That language is so offensive that it tears down any bridge we might have to speak to Muslims about Christianity," said Bruce Prescott, executive director of Oklahoma Mainstream Baptists, a moderate group.
Even some conservatives who agree with Vines' assessment had reservations about his statements.
Richard Land, director of the Southern Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, said, "I agree with Dr. Vines: There is no way to salvation except through Jesus Christ." But Vines' language differed from what he would use, Land said.
Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., said that Muhammad is a complex figure and that he did not know enough about his life to comment on the pedophile accusation.
Baptists have angered other religious groups with their statements and tactics. Some Baptist congregations prayed for the conversion of Muslims to Christianity during Ramadan, a period for religious observances in Islam.
Baptists distributed literature on how to convert Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons, which they describe as "cults," in 2000.
In 1999, some Baptists publicly called for prayers during Jewish holy days for conversion of Jews to Christianity.
In other action Tuesday, Baptist moderates asked that Southern Baptist missionaries who were hired under older Baptist Faith and Message Statements be allowed to continue serving even if they refuse to affirm the newer, more controversial 2000 Baptist Faith and Message.
The requests were referred to the International Mission Board and the North American Mission Board, effectively killing them.
Another motion asked the Southern Baptist Convention to recognize only one state convention in each state. Texas, Virginia and Missouri have competing state conventions.
If approved, it could severely affect the Baptist General Convention of Texas, which is controlled by moderates. An alternative convention, the Southern Baptists of Texas, led by conservatives, is strongly supported by the national Southern Baptist Convention.
Staff writer Brett Hoffman contributed to this report.
In the first place, this was a gathering for Christians and the teaching was directed at Christians. This was NOT a setting in which anybody was trying to convert anybody, but rather a gathering for the purpose of the edification of the CHURCH. It is the responsibility of the church to speak the truth, not politically correct, watered down niceties which edify no one. If there were Muslims there, the only reason was to disrupt. God brings unity. It is Satan who is the divider. God speaks truth. Satan is the father of lies. God is a God of peace, Satan of confusion. It is not the pastor who created the disturbance. He simply spoke the truth to his people as he is sworn to do.
I guess Mr. Prescott of the Oklahoma "Mainstream" Baptists has been tickling a few ears for quite a while now. What is a "Mainstream" baptist anyway? Do they take any stands based on bible truth or do they take a poll?
I have a nifty little guide in my bible that is called 20 scripture based prayers for your pastor. The first one is based on 1 Peter 3:12 and says: I thank you Father that your eyes are on my shepard and Your ears are attentive to my pastor's prayers and Your face is against those who plot evil against my pastor.
Amen!
He spoke the truth, a rare occurence these days. I admire his guts and I think that we need more like him. Christians are to boldly proclaim truth, not pander to false deities. so I would say that on a spritual level it serves to furthur separate the sheep from the goats.
I get the general impression from him though that he ain't afraid of anything walking on two feet.
Actually incorrect: "beyond the black stump" is simply idiom for a place far from the big smoke (aka the city).
The phrases you are looking for are "mad as a gum-tree full of galahs", 
"silly as a two-bob watch", "Kangaroos loose in the top paddock ", "a couple of snags short of a barbie", and the everuseful "dill".
LOL! You have great intuition, sj!
Last time I checked, this is America. The same First Amendment that gives Muslims the freedom to meet and pray in mosques on Fridays also gives Dr. Vines the freedom to preach the gospel. This is a foreign concept in Islamic countries.
May God protect and bless Jerry Vines. I am thankful for people that will stand up for the truth, even when it is unpopular.
Don't loose heart. THe real church still exists it's people like you who are the make up of it. Every one who truely beleives that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour is part of God's catholic (i.e. universal) church.
God Bless,
Mel
Pardon me, I think they are already very hostile toward the Christians in their part of the world and they are very aggressive.
Are you aware of what they say to each other in their mosques in regard to our country?
ESSAY QUESTION
In your bluebook, compare and contrast Charles Manson and Muhammed.
BUMP
Manson attracted women 16-32.
Muhammad married 13 women, the first the rich widow Khadija who financed all his dreams...the last the nine-year-old Aisha ["little girl"] who certainly DID consummate the marriage at that age! He also was said to have had 40 or so concubines. Now that I have typed that word, I have a little story to tell.
We were over in the Forbidden City in Peking, and the Chinese guide, barely understandable in English, was droning on and on about the Emperor's concubines.
A woman in our group asked another, "What does he mean anyway, concubine this, concubine that?"
"I don't know either, said the other. It's the state flower of Colorado, I think."
I think it is the state flower of Arabia.
I have got to remember that !
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