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To: Mr Rogers; swarthyguy; toddst
I agree with everyone of your assertions... every single one. I just thought the article was interesting and worth some thought.

And while it is true most, if not all, future conflicts will be BVR it should be noted that the SUs come armed with the AA-12 ADDER (Rateka-77) AMRAAM-ski that is superior to the AIM-120 AMRAAM, especially due to its control surfaces that have made people refer to the AIM-120 as 'conventional,' plus the fact the R77 is faster, more manouevrable, can fly 50km more than the AMRAAM, and can switch between three radars in flight! Thus the chances of a Sukhoi finding itself face to face is low, and it can handle itself extremely well at BVR (according to German tests better than the Eagle).

And as for the much touted manoeuvrability of the Sukhoi, all it is is just for show. It is an airshow trick that cannot be used in real life with a full combat load, and its only purpose is to wow spectators and make people want to buy the Flanker. However the reason the Sukhoi does not need the 'cobra manouevre' and all that trick stuff is because of this... the AA-11 ARCHER (Rateka-73). This is the second best short-range missile in the world (the best is the Israeli Python) which is so advanced that it can engage targets LATERAL to the jet! All the pilot needs to do is look at the target and his helmet targeting system does the rest!

Thus the Sukhoi carries an appropriate long stick the R-77 (no.1 worldwide, although some say the Phoenix is a tie) and for short range scraps it packs R-73 (no.2 worldwide)!

And with trained pilots it can mess with the best F-15 there is.

And as for its radar cross section, the Su upgraded terminator is actually smaller in radar than the F-15 (even though it is bigger than the Eagle in size). Actually here is an exerpt from the article:It has a huge internal fuel capacity and, like the F-14, can carry a lot of very large bombs in attack roles—neatly hidden from radar detection between the podded engine nacelles. In addition, its external shape results in a naturally low radar signature without compromising its performance.

Also Russia gave India an upgrade for some of its fighters that could coat them with RAM that would reduce their cross section in radar by 70%.

Thus physical size being a detriment in terms of radar detection is not such a big issue.

In conclusion i do agree with most of your assertions, although for different reasons. I agree all those airshow manoeuvres are for show, and so are the acrobatics.... but because the Su-30 does not need them! It has some of the best BVR capabilities,and in short range it will be sending an R-73 not trying to 'stamd on tis tail.'

I also completely believe that training is everything. Think of what happened in 'nam when the F-4 phantom pilots went for Top Gun training... migs were falling from the skies left right and center! Training is key, and that is one of many reasons why the American airforce is to be feared and respected.

however my point was that if the SUs can be an efficient stop gap until the raptors come about then they would be something to THINK about.

73 posted on 06/06/2002 8:46:40 AM PDT by spetznaz
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To: spetznaz
" And while it is true most, if not all, future conflicts will be BVR it should be noted that the SUs come armed with the AA-12 ADDER (Rateka-77) AMRAAM-ski that is superior to the AIM-120 AMRAAM"

Where are you getting this from? Glossy marketing handouts?

How widely deployed is the AA-12? How many batches have been produced so far? The Russian Airforce isn't expected to field the Adder till 2004 or 2005. And the AMRAAM you compare this to must be the AIM-120A that was deployed in 1992. Because surely you'd know about all the enhancements made in B/C/C5. I would suggest some glossy marketing brochures from Raytheon to balance the views.

76 posted on 06/06/2002 9:22:01 AM PDT by Aaron_A
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