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To: Confederate_Son; swarthyguy; PsyOps; Aaron A; toddst; The Other Harry; Rodney King...
Honestly i have to agree with you that seeing a Mig 29 landing at Edwards, and then hearing the sounds of American Pratt and Whitneys being emitted by the Mig, and then taking a closer look at seeing the insignia of the 'USAF' seems like something out of the twilight zone! Even if the Cold war is over it is still mighty strange.

Anyway the reason the sukhoi/mig thing is warranted is because in the US there has been a tendency to field aircraft that is ten years before the rest, and then ten years later the Russians introduce the 'competition' that is obviously more advanced than the decade old American fighter.

For example the su-27 (first rolled out in the mid eighties)was the Soviet answer for the F-15 (first rolled out in the seventies). Thus these aircraft have technologies that were not present when the American stuff rolled out.

A good example is the F-16 and the Mig-29 (i emphasize the upgraded Russian version not the monkey models sold to Iraq). The Mig came out almost a decade after the Falcon, and it had integrated etch like the helmet mounted missile targeting system that can shoot off a missile from any angle etc.

Another example is comparing the AMRAAM and the AMRAAM-ski (R77).

So the fear is that ten years from now the F22 Raptors and the JSFs are going to getting churned out at full blast. And they shall be great planes and stuff. Great planes, but possibly obsolete!

However at that moment the Russians and Chinese shall be sending remote controlled drones with slaved AA missiles and possibly some A2G ordnance, and with combat suites to protect them from EMP waves that can fry their circuitry.

Thus when we are flying our Raptors they shall be messing around with stealth drones that can do a 30g turn that would separate human hemoglobin from blood plasma! And our raptors will not be able to pull 9gs without the pilot blacking out. How are they going to defend against a future hypersonic ASRAAM that can turn faster than the devil?

Actually i 'read' an article that stated China was working on some type of stealth concept (and the artist depiction of the manned plane looked 'too much' like an F-22). India is also working on a hypersonic plane (which would be a complement to its LCA lightweight fighter program).

Yet we are just trying to develop todays stealth tech for tomorrows air environment! Actually if some stealth fielded by certain countries can 'paint' stealth, such as the Czech radar that shot down that F-117A in Yugoslavia; or the Australian one that was tracking a B-2 Spirit a couple of years ago at a British airshow; i wonder.... will stealth be obsolete in the future (well, not technically obsolete but only to be used against 'banana republics).

Everyone in the know is saying that UCAVs are the future, drones flitting around at 30+gs and packing AMRAAMS and JDAMS, but strangely we are working on an expensive manned design that is set to come out when other nations are bringing out stealthy drones.

When we could get some Sukhois, amp them up, and use them until our own UCAVs are up and running.

However this argument will meet the same fate of the Israeli Python AA missile (which is the most advanced of its kind) that was shot down for an American version that was not as good. By the way the no 2 happens to be Russian, FYI. IMO i think we should have bought the Python, reverse enginered the sucker, and built our own ASRAAM that was better. And do the same with the SUs, except this time we just give them American engines, and our weapons (possibly that American Python), and use the SUs until our UCAVS are ready.

Then we will continuosly be ahead of the Chinese. And with the rise of Assymetric warfare, when relatively poor nations spend their defense budgets on just a few combat etchs, but techs so advanced that they can counter the most advanced American hardware (eg the sunburn anti-ship missiles by china to use on American aircraft carriers, or the inquiry by Iraq about radar grids that might even threaten stealth craft), this is a real threat. What if some nation purchased the Swedish Stealth Frigates (you should see a picture of them, they are COOL), and armed them with some stand-off surface to surface missiles that have enough manouevrability to beat the Phalanx defense system? Bringing down just carrier would be a great blow!

Thus my reasoning for focussing on what is needed both now, and what is needed in the future. Instead of fielding tech that would be super today, but will be used by everyone and their uncle ten years from now.

And yes, i know that was rife with hyperbole... but the crux of the argument still stands! We need to stop going after weapons systems just to please certain states by giving them defense contracts. Otherwise one day a squadron of F-18E SuperHornets shall try to prevent China from attacking Taipei, and find themselves facing Drones flown by 18yr old Chinese nerds thinking its some videogame. (Again i know that is hyperbole, but i just wanted to drive my point home).

And i have a feeling the 'powers that be' know this, after all it has been happening for sometime now. However with the risk of some carzy kook in some crazier republic with a suicide wish (thus eliminating the deterrence of our Tridents and Peacemakers) getting the handle on the notion of assymetrical warfare, and spending 8% of his nations crude oil income to purchase some Chinese stealth anti-shipping missiles to get at our destroyers, or maybe some hypercavitating rocket torpedoes anchored to the ocean floor near his harbor with advanced acoustic capabilities chilling for our subs. What then. We will still kick their collective a$$e$ since the US will obviously have more combat assets, but they will hurt us and hurt us bad!

And if you think other nations do not think of how to neutralize American military projection you must be dreaming.

71 posted on 06/06/2002 8:23:05 AM PDT by spetznaz
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