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Scientific Boehner: The new creationism and the congressmen who support it.
The American Prospect ^ | June 5, 2002 | Iain Murray

Posted on 06/05/2002 6:55:45 PM PDT by Gladwin

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To: JediGirl
Ping,
41 posted on 06/05/2002 8:53:44 PM PDT by ContentiousObjector
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To: Tomalak
The word progress existed before evolution cannibalized everything...now it is all evo-think-speak!
42 posted on 06/05/2002 8:55:15 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
Evolution is just a word for a particular type of progress. Don't take it personally when it is used lol. The word existed long before 1859 and "progress" will exist long into the future too.
43 posted on 06/05/2002 8:56:38 PM PDT by Tomalak
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To: Tomalak
By disclaiming the accusations against evolutionism that it could not have happened at random, your implied claim is that a nonrandomness somehow existed in the universe from its inception. Take a stand: God involved or not? By claiming superciliously that God is irrelevant in the study of life, this is like claiming that the sun is irrelevant in the study of daylight.
44 posted on 06/05/2002 8:57:48 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Washington_minuteman
It sure does. And the scientists who consider Creationism to be scientific are outnumbered about 99 to 1.
45 posted on 06/05/2002 8:58:01 PM PDT by Tomalak
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Okay, I'll explain what evolution actually is, then.

Evolution is the process of non-random Natural Selection of random genetic mutations on the basis of what helps a creature to adapt to its environment best.

So randomness enters the theory where genetic mutations occur. But the way in which these mutations are sorted: Natural Selection, is absolutely non-random. Those creatures who best survive in the environment in which they are born do not survive at random. They survive because they have certain genetic features that make them better equipped to survive. So a creature with a mini-eye that could distinguish a tiny shadow would survive better than a creature without it.

46 posted on 06/05/2002 9:02:22 PM PDT by Tomalak
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To: Tomalak
This kind of artificially sterile "science" has forgotten that it is but a twig on the branch called "natural philosophy." I take this as simply a stage of the evolution of human thought. If "evolution" can be believed to have produced dinosaurs, surely it is credible to believe "science" has produced a turkey!
47 posted on 06/05/2002 9:05:44 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Gladwin
ID is not, however, true science. According to the eminent modern philosopher Karl Popper, the defining characteristic of science is that its assertions are falsifiable. In other words, if we have no means to prove a theory wrong -- by experiment, observation, and the like -- then it is not scientific. And theories that cannot be falsified simply have no place in science books or classrooms.

By this definition, evolution isn't science either. It may be possible to disprove a specific idea of how evolution occurred, but that just leads evolutionists to revise the theory. So evolution as an overall theory can never be disproved. Punctuated equilibrium, Steven Jay Gould's theory, was developed in response to the fact that the fossil record doesn't show gradual changes as has always been considered a key element of evolutionary theory. Hence, punctuated equilibrium!

What's taught in the schools is not the more technical aspects of how evolution theoretically occurs - such as at the molecular level, i.e. the falsifiable part - obviously far too advanced for public school curricula. They just teach the general idea of evolution, and assert that species A evolved into species B, which is probably not falsifiable either, even if it never happened that way.

48 posted on 06/05/2002 9:05:45 PM PDT by lasereye
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To: Tomalak
"And the scientists who consider Creationism to be scientific are outnumbered about 99 to 1."

Not surprizing. Still, the way evolution is defended makes me think they have something to fear in acknowleging that there's something bigger than they are. That's why I called them high priests in a post above. It's like some wierd ultra-sacrosanct religion, where all questions are answered by the magic word "evolution" and objectors are sent to the stocks.

49 posted on 06/05/2002 9:06:34 PM PDT by Washington_minuteman
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To: Tomalak
Evolution is the telegraph---morse code in the info age...

you're playing with the punch cards---old tricks--illusions!

99-1...you're hallucinating!

50 posted on 06/05/2002 9:09:27 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: Tomalak
Nice dodging, but what about the natural conditions? And the mechanisms upon which "evolution" putatively harnesses "random mutations" to take advantage of the natural conditions? Are these two things, themselves, at the pleasure of "randomness" -- or aren't they? Why should we expect them to have been privileged to produce dinosaurs, mice, and men rather than mere sludge?
51 posted on 06/05/2002 9:09:33 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Washington_minuteman
By this definition, evolution isn't science either

Wrong. Evolution can be falsified surprisingly easily. If even one fossil was found in the wrong place, we would know that evolution could not have taken place. Why do you think so many Creationists try to put fake fossils in these places except because they want to falsify the theory?

Still, the way evolution is defended makes me think they have something to fear in acknowleging that there's something bigger than they are.

Evolution does not exclude "something bigger". What it excludes is a literal interpretation of both of the two Creation stories in Genesis I-III.

52 posted on 06/05/2002 9:11:07 PM PDT by Tomalak
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To: Kevin Curry
They far exceed Pope Urban VIII in the ferocity of their resistance to new ideas.

Creationism/Intelligent Design is the NEW kid on the block!?! I suggest you fire your fact-checker...

53 posted on 06/05/2002 9:14:44 PM PDT by Condorman
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Are these two things, themselves, at the pleasure of "randomness" -- or aren't they?

They are. But Natural Selection is non-random, which is why those who claim that the theory of Evolution by Natural Selection is a belief in random chance are wrong.

If evolution were a random process, it would be something like the Theory of Evolution by random selection, which would mean creatures just dying and living for no reason at all. Obviously it would be impossible for complex life to evolve at random, which is why no one believes this.

F.Christian, please write in full sentences if you want a reply. I have difficulty working out what you mean.

54 posted on 06/05/2002 9:15:19 PM PDT by Tomalak
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To: Tomalak
What [evolutionism] excludes is a literal interpretation of both of the two Creation stories in Genesis I-III.

Very so. Even old earth creationism flies in the face of solely-evolutionistic explanations of life.

55 posted on 06/05/2002 9:17:37 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: Washington_minuteman
I guess it all hinges on one's definition of scientific. Doesn't it?

Okay, I'll bite. What is your definition of scientific (or "The Scientific Process"), and are there any active research scientists using it?

56 posted on 06/05/2002 9:17:59 PM PDT by Condorman
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To: Tomalak
"By this definition, evolution isn't science either"

I didn't write that.

I wrote this:

"Not surprizing. Still, the way evolution is defended makes me think they have something to fear in acknowleging that there's something bigger than they are. That's why I called them high priests in a post above. It's like some wierd ultra-sacrosanct religion, where all questions are answered by the magic word "evolution" and objectors are sent to the stocks."

57 posted on 06/05/2002 9:18:34 PM PDT by Washington_minuteman
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To: Tomalak
But Natural Selection is non-random

Indeed it is. It is ludicrously biased toward extinction. Somehow that didn't happen.

58 posted on 06/05/2002 9:19:10 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Yes, it does. The theory there is that "days" means "thousands of years" or something, which is a hell of a stretch.

By the way, "evolutionism" is not a word. The word is "evolution" and a scientist who studies evolution is an "evolutionist". But an evolutionist no more studies evolutionism than a biologist studies biologism.

59 posted on 06/05/2002 9:21:59 PM PDT by Tomalak
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To: HiTech RedNeck
It is ludicrously biased toward extinction. Somehow that didn't happen.

Extinction? All that is necessary for evolution to take place is that parents have more offspring than can survive or that offspring can vary in their capacity to produce offspring of their own. All that is necessary for evolution to happen is that some creatures die young and that the survivors are the ones better suited genetically to their environment.

60 posted on 06/05/2002 9:24:47 PM PDT by Tomalak
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