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Is Secession a Right?
Capitalism Magazine ^
| Walter Williams
Posted on 06/04/2002 9:50:22 AM PDT by aconservaguy
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To: aconservaguy
Walter Williams bump. Definitely bookmarked for future ammo :) |
To: aconservaguy
Yes. Otherwise West Virginia is not a state.
3
posted on
06/04/2002 10:00:08 AM PDT
by
jae471
To: aconservaguy
Well he ruined his entire argument by relying so heavily in Tom DiLorenzo - a proven rail-splitting non-truth teller.
To: aconservaguy;Alabama_Wild_Man
Ping for another "Lincoln killed the Constitution" article.
To: aconservaguy
Are there any Arizona FReepers online reading this? I seem to recall someone telling me once that the Arizona Constitution has a provision to allow it to secede if the right to own guns is ever taken away. Can anyone confirm this?
Thanks
6
posted on
06/04/2002 10:01:39 AM PDT
by
xrp
To: xrp
Urban legend, methinks. Could find no reference to it in the state constitution.
7
posted on
06/04/2002 10:04:57 AM PDT
by
Poohbah
To: Poohbah
Aww...too bad, huh?
I was born in Glendale.
8
posted on
06/04/2002 10:06:03 AM PDT
by
xrp
To: KentuckyWoman
Yeah, the U.S. has really sucked since the 1860's.
Since it's so bad here for you, why don't you move to Russia, where the breakaway countries are doing so well.
9
posted on
06/04/2002 10:07:45 AM PDT
by
Vladiator
To: aconservaguy
Yes secession is a right. You can board any international airliner leaving the United States and choose not to come back. No one will stop you.
To: Vladiator
Yes, secession is a right...you only have to win the resulting war.
The next 20-30 years might see exactly that happen as the US becomes more authoritarian in nature and Russia embraces capitalism and freedom many of us may very well move to Russia.
Stuff it in your hat and smoke it.
To: jae471
And that is the paradox and the irony for those who say secession can never be allowed. One of the "new" Union states (which by the way was allowed to continue slavery throughout the Civil War) was born of coerced secession, having masses of Union troops rushed in to "convince" western Virginia to become a part of the Union cause. Besides, if secession is immoral, then the formation of the United States was indeed an act of treason and the Crown of England was right when they declared us an illegitimate entity. I guess the old adage that the winners of wars write the history books invariably to their own advantage still holds true. However, that cannot wash away the factual basis of what created our republic in the first place.
To: rebelsoldier
If seccession is impossible, then the Declaration of Independence is rather hollow, isn't it?
To: Vladiator
Since it's so bad here for you, why don't you move to Russia Why don't you blow it out your ears!! Either argue on Constitutional grounds or get a life! This Nation was founded as a Constitutional Republic and has been turned into a Socialist Democracy by those in charge because people like YOU seem to have their heads stuck where the sun don't shine.
To: xrp
I don't know about that, but have always heard Texas retained it's right to secede. This used to be a comfort (even if untrue). With the immigration problem, I am not sure anymore.
But, geez, from the posts, I see no one really believes in the right of self-determination anymore, or even the discussion of it.
15
posted on
06/04/2002 10:20:56 AM PDT
by
nanny
To: Eagle Eye
Please enumerate the
legal (as opposed to
natural) right of secession that we had from England.
The Declaration states that people have a natural right to rebel against tyrannical govenment; that doesn't equate to any sort of legally enforceable right to secede.
16
posted on
06/04/2002 10:23:31 AM PDT
by
Poohbah
To: aconservaguy
One of the neglected arguments for the right of secession is the contractarian one -- that the Constitution, being a contract that binds the states and the federal government into a specified set of obligations to one another, is null and void if either side should violate it.
The critical observation is that there is no enforcement authority for the Constitution. An elected federal official who has sworn to presrve, protect and defend it, and who then violates that oath, faces no penalty for having done so, nor can he be prevented from doing so again. Since this is plainly what has happened many times in the course of the past century, we must ask just what shelter for our rights the Constitution provides, and therefore what loyalty or duty we owe to the government it constitutes.
Are there worse places to live than America? Indeed, yes: just about everywhere else on Earth. That doesn't have any bearing at all on the moral, legal, and philosophical questions that surround the demonstrated failure of the Constitutional contract to protect the rights we were assured would be safe in its care.
Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit The Palace Of Reason: http://palaceofreason.com
To: aconservaguy
If the people of one of these united states decided that they would be better off out of the Union and voted to secede and I was ordered to attack them by the government in Washington for no other reason than their secession, I would consider the order to be "unlawful" and I would go to jail before I would participate in any attack on them.
To: nanny
But, geez, from the posts, I see no one really believes in the right of self-determination anymore, or even the discussion of it.I believe in the right of self-determination. I don't believe in a legal, unilateral, and absolute right of secession that has no limit.
19
posted on
06/04/2002 10:25:26 AM PDT
by
Poohbah
To: fporretto
An elected federal official who has sworn to presrve, protect and defend it, and who then violates that oath, faces no penalty for having done so, nor can he be prevented from doing so again.False statement. Those who elect him have the right to throw him out of office at the next election.
BTW, who would you trust with any enforcement mechanism?
20
posted on
06/04/2002 10:27:09 AM PDT
by
Poohbah
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