Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Republicans get the last laugh
The Guardian ^ | Thursday May 9, 2002 | Roy Hattersley

Posted on 06/01/2002 3:37:41 PM PDT by David Hunter

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-59 next last
To: David Hunter
I'll trade you Bill Clinton.
21 posted on 06/01/2002 5:09:52 PM PDT by tet68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: Tomalak
Where do you get the idea that the right to bear arms would appear in any modern constitution?

I simply use this as an example of how the British government slowly erodes the rights of its subjects. The laws on firearm ownership were tightened shortly after the Russian revolution because the ruling classes were scared of a communist insurrection. It is obvious that the British aristocracy have never been comfortable with their subjects owning firearms and so they have used every incident as an opportunity to further erode that right.

It should be obvious to you that massacres like those at Hungerford and Dunblane could be repeated, because the number of firearms held by criminals in Britain has actually increased by almost a third since all handguns were prohibited. I don't think that encouraging Britons to carry firearms for personal defence would be a solution to our crime problem. But I do believe that the government has immorally seized on events over the years to destroy an activity they weren't comfortable with.

23 posted on 06/01/2002 5:13:02 PM PDT by David Hunter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Rottweiler
Well, Rottweiler, since I didn't author the sentence you are responding to, I can't comment back. Think you meant to direct your reply elsewhere, and I hope this message gets it sent where you intended.
24 posted on 06/01/2002 5:20:19 PM PDT by Draco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Draco
There was much to worry about. Remember Hitler's adjutant Rudolph Hess? He parachuted into the English mainland during the war. Hitler himself hoped to install a friendly and compliant member of the royal family on the British throne.

Yes. After he abdicated Edward the VIII spent some time in Portugal where he was contacted by the Nazis. Apparently, Hitler wanted him to persuade Churchill to come to the negotiating table and sign a non-agression pact. Then Hitler could have concentrated on finishing off the Soviets and then turned all his military might on Britain. After beating us he planned to put Edward the VIII back on the throne to appease the British masses. Thank god Churchill would have nothing to do with Edward the VIII, the 'traitor king'.

Winston Churchill ordered certain WWII intelligence records sealed forever.

Probably because he knew that the damage the facts about Edward the VIII's treachery would have done to the monarchy might have proven fatal for it.

25 posted on 06/01/2002 5:28:16 PM PDT by David Hunter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: RichInOC
Best of luck. All you need are leaders of the same high caliber as the gentlemen who fought in our revolution, drafted our constitution and first served in our government.

Unfortunately, even if we could find such people the current media generated hysteria among the British people about the wonderfulness of the Monarchy would make any change very difficult.

Just look at how the British media expended its entire energy publicising the death of Lady Diana, in such an intense way as to excite public hysteria. The media are currently going mad with the Jubilee celebrations. The effect of all this media propaganda must be to brainwash people who haven't formed opinions about the Monarchy, especially the young, into becoming ardent Monarchists.

26 posted on 06/01/2002 5:50:09 PM PDT by David Hunter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Tomalak
Roy Hattersley has some nerve writing about how much the Queen Mother costs the country. He was one of the worst ministers in by far the worst British government in the last 60 years.

Yes. The Labour government of the late seventies failed in many ways. But Hattersley does have some sensible things to say about the psychology of the Monarchy and its effects on British society.

27 posted on 06/01/2002 5:55:16 PM PDT by David Hunter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: David Hunter
A few years ago on PBS, I saw a program hosted by the Earl of Wessex (who prefers to be called "Edward Wessex" as if he's just an average schmuck) that purported to clear Windsor of any pro-Nazi leanings. I'm not surprised that it was a bunch of bull.
28 posted on 06/01/2002 6:01:07 PM PDT by Tony in Hawaii
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Capriole
You must know that Americans are completely addled on the subject of royalty, to the point of doing stupid things like curtseying at garden parties. We are a nation of Hyacinth Buckets, however much we prate about equality and democracy...

Perhaps you would like to take them back to America, you're welcome to them.

...many Americans go to England to see over the great houses, catch glimpses of foxhunts, see the Changing of the Guard and the Beefeater and all the hackneyed things.

Funny thing, fox hunts are regarded as being extremely cruel by the majority of the British public, and so the elected House of Commons recently passed legislation banning them. However, the unelected House of Lords vetoed this legislation and sent it back to the Commons to be watered down. Of course your average lord likes a good fox hunt!

29 posted on 06/01/2002 6:19:55 PM PDT by David Hunter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: David Hunter; B-Chan; Goetz_von_Berlichingen
Yes why don't you brits give up the only thing that has a chance of saving you from falling totally into the commie EU(sarcasm). Democracy always leads to socialism the problem is the royal family has stayed out of politics completely since Queen Anne.
30 posted on 06/01/2002 7:32:59 PM PDT by weikel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: David Hunter
Sorry elections are just an advance auction of stolen goods. Democracy inevitably leads to socialism. You have a free society two ways a libertarian thinking monarch/dictator or a republic with a strict minarchist constitution.
31 posted on 06/01/2002 7:38:36 PM PDT by weikel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: David Hunter
The psychological effects of the monarchy reinforce in peoples mind that socialism is not part of the natural order of things.
32 posted on 06/01/2002 7:47:56 PM PDT by weikel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: David Hunter
Clinton may have been a sleaze, but at least you can get rid of him. If it hadn't been for Edward the VIII falling in love with Wallis Simpson and abdicating, then we would have been stuck with a king who sympathised with Hitler and believed that Britain should sign a non-aggression pact with him. What would have become of us?

If he hadn't abdicated, you Brittish should have done the same thing that was done to Charles I.

33 posted on 06/01/2002 8:17:36 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: weikel
I will try to read the whole thread tomorrow, but one little passage struck me immediately"
[H]e was marking the passing of someone who could not possibly subscribe to the same tax code as the rest of us.

The discovery that the Treasury is to be denied its proper share of the £50m fortune has ended the taboo that, for the past six weeks, has prevented a rational examination of the monarchy.

Class warfare, envy, and resentment. "The people" continue to vote socialists into office who, as an article of their political religion, believe that the state is the rightful owner of all property, to confiscate ("tax") as it wishes. Then, since misery loves company, "the people" express resentment that someone has succeeded in escaping this horrendous tyranny. The Crown is the symbolic defender of private property and of our right to leave whatever we have amassed, either by prudent investment or hard work (or even sheer luck), to our desgnated heirs.

I doubt that the Royal family votes for Socialists. If the people continue to do so, they have no one to blame for extortionate taxation but themselves.

34 posted on 06/01/2002 8:46:12 PM PDT by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: David Hunter
Funny thing, fox hunts are regarded as being extremely cruel by the majority of the British public, and so the elected House of Commons recently passed legislation banning them. However, the unelected House of Lords vetoed this legislation and sent it back to the Commons to be watered down. Of course your average lord likes a good fox hunt!

You're not a country boy, I see.

The fox population, lacking any predator save the automobile, multiplies at a log rate unless it is controlled. The damage that foxes do to a British agricultural system already driven nearly to its knees by foot-and-mouth disease is incalculable: foxes are such determined marauders that they will actually eat lambs that are in the process of being born. Something must be done so that the British farmer doesn't sustain enormous losses from foxes.

Unfortunately, a massive study conducted in the UK last year was unable to find any method of killing foxes that would be less cruel than the hunt. Shooting is usually unsuccessful, trapping and poisoning lead to agonizing deaths, and no method of birth control has been found effective.

Foxes are adorable and cuddly-looking, and it is easy for the urban and suburban British public, which no longer has much knowledge of country life, to sympathize with foxes. Perhaps the class resentments that have always been a part of British life play a role in their distaste for hunting, too; there's a mistaken perception that hunters are a lot of destable toffs. I had a pet fox when I was a child and of course have a great deal of sympathy for these clever, beautiful creatures. But when I saw the bones of lambs outside of fox dens and saw hard-working, tough farm women in tears over the loss of their animals, my sympathy vanished.

35 posted on 06/01/2002 9:36:48 PM PDT by Capriole
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Capriole
You're not a country boy, I see.

Actually, I mention this incident to demonstrate that an undemocratic system can override the democratic one when it wishes.

From what I hear 'lamping' is almost as effective as fox hunting and is a lot less cruel, since the fox gets shot, not torn apart by hounds.

36 posted on 06/02/2002 4:02:56 AM PDT by David Hunter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: weikel
The psychological effects of the monarchy reinforce in peoples mind that socialism is not part of the natural order of things.

So you don't believe in egalitarianism then?

Who said a Republic has to become Socialist. The USA isn't Socialist is it?

If you want to talk about the natural order of things, how about Darwinism. Do you think that it is natural for one family who are not physically stronger or cleverer than the rest of the population to hold a position of unrivalled power?

37 posted on 06/02/2002 4:16:04 AM PDT by David Hunter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: tet68
I'll trade you Bill Clinton.

How would you like it if Bill Clinton had been your head of state for 50 years and counting, and there was nothing you could do about it?

If we get a lousy Monarch we're stuck with them until they die or abdicate (which has only happened once).

38 posted on 06/02/2002 4:23:35 AM PDT by David Hunter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: David Hunter
The British monarchy is not PC because it is is white-only. No blacks , islamics or hispanics need apply.

THAT is why American wasps worship the British monarchy.


BUMP

39 posted on 06/02/2002 4:26:55 AM PDT by tm22721
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: David Hunter
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse* from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship." -Alexander Tyler

If you want to keep your money then your interest lay with the crown.

40 posted on 06/02/2002 1:36:26 PM PDT by weikel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-59 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson