Teaching Alternative To Evolution Backed

Washinton Post ^ | Wednesday, May 29, 2002 | Michael A. Fletcher

[Virginia-American]

but certainly Johnson should be taught along with Darwin...

I would have said along with Johnnie Cochran, in a rhetoric or logic course. When he's actually added something to the store of knowledge, then, maybe, he would deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Darwin and other great scientists. Until then, he's just a demogogue/lawyer

[Quila]

than the fact that G-d exists and He is the one, ultimately, with whom you have to do.

Or not.

Read that as a factual statement, such as you telling me that it would be much easier to avoid falling off of things if I knew more about gravity.

It might be more effective to teach you about balance.

[Quila]

Yes, people with bad eyes don't see well. I recommend glasses.

I wear glasses. Pretty high-speed ones too; they cost me a fortune. It helps in seeing the obvious imperfections more easily.

[Quila]

There isn't. In order to have a meaningful dialectic between evolution and religion, you would need a religion whicih operated on an intellectual level similar to that of evolution, and the only two possible candidates would be voodoo and Rastifari.

That sounds very familiar. Somebody's digging into his cut&paste baggie again.

In order to have a meaningful dialectic between science and religion, you would first have to use alchemy on the science side, then religions can more easily understand.

[Virginia-American]

Somebody who put his mind to it might could devise a proof that the odds against evolutionism are uncountable, as opposed to merely infinite.

This is the second time I've called you on this. Your statement is, to be charitable, simply illiterate.

[Quila]

The best evidence available is that [...] more than one set of hands was involved in [designing life]".

No wonder it's so messed up. I worked as a designer, and design by committee produces some pretty atrocious results.

[Quila]

Would YOU try to design something which a customer was only going to use for ten minutes and worry about whether or not it was perfect?

I think you and Ford have the same idea. That airbag I had explode in my face was only supposed to be used for less than a second. It still did far more damage to me (deep lacerations and bruises, hearing loss) than the low-speed accident did (none).

[Quila]

What life forms have YOU designed this week?

Funny you mentioned that. I had a girlfriend getting her master's in some field of biology. One day she said "Look at the critter I designed!"

[BMCDA]

I think he has Borel's Law in mind but this has been debunked here. Oh no, it's on talk.origins so I'm afraid it doesn't count ;-P

[f.Christian]

How about...

suspended reality(denial)---impossibility unleashed(fantasy/reason)...evolution!

[Quila]

So God could commit any atrocity and because it's way beyond our "pay grade"

Crack open your Old Testament. He starts getting pretty nasty not too far in. Dishonesty, adultry, rape, murder, genocide, it's all in there, all sanctioned or ordered by god.

[Quila]

atheist heros Clinton, Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sun, Castro

Clinton and Hitler were Christian. And an interesting part of Stalin's life is:

In 1888 Stalin began attending the Gori Church School, where he learned Russian and excelled at his studies, winning a scholarship to the Tbilisi Theological Seminary in the Georgian capital in 1894. ... Stalin began his studies at the seminary as a devout believer in Orthodox Christianity

No reference in the bio of him renouncing his faith.

[AndrewC]

And I answered your answer.

...

Please note: the guy answering Wells could have been answering you:

You make this statement ----Banded iron formations (containing unoxidized iron) and pyrites don't form in the kind of oxidizing atmosphere you claim. I show you that they form in water not in air. You agree --- Solution, not air, yes. But the waters were oxygen-poor. but try to obscure that by mentioning oxygen, evidently in it's present atmospheric form. That was not indicated in the atmospheric composition in my citation. Having waved this red herring you try to make me defend someone I have not cited. No dice. As for your highly regarded and cited chemical expert, he is a self-admitted---

Who's the real fraud?(aptly describing you)

Version 1.0 -- By Nic Tamzek (concerned grad student; email: niiicholas@yahoo.com), with help. Graduate student, the area of study is unmentioned

This proffered "expert" is supposedly answering my interpretation of BIFs. You are so excited by his knowledge that you repeat your claim.

The guy answering Wells could have been answering you on the interpretation of BIFs. So could Schopf have been.

Please note: the guy answering Wells could have been answering you:

However, despite your misrepresentation that is not my interpretation. I only accept it. The interpretation belongs to this guy. You'll note, his credentials are not limited to a concerned graduate student.

CORNELIS ("KASE") KLEIN

Ph.D., Harvard University, 1965. (Professor; Presidential Teaching Fellow) (505) 277-2023;

Research and Academic Interests:

Petrology, geochemistry, and the genesis of Precambrian iron-formations worldwide; the mineralogy of amphiboles and of amphibolite-type metamorphic assemblages. Joint studies (with N.J. Beukes) of Proterozoic iron-formations in South Africa have provided much new insight into their probable origin. This work has been extended (jointly with A.E. Ladeira) to the Archean and Proterozoic iron-formations (and ores) in the Quadrilᴥro Ferr�ro of Brazil.

Listing of Recent Publications:

• "Mineralogy Tutorials: Interactive Instruction on CD-ROM," version 2.0, John Wiley & Sons, New York, 2000, (C. Klein).
• "Geochemistry and Petrology of some Proterozoic banded iron-formations of the Quadrilᴥro Ferr�ro, Minas Gerais, Brazil," Economic Geology, v. 95, p. 405-428, 2000, (C. Klein and E.A. Ladeira).
• "Manual of Mineralogy, 21 st edition," revised with CD-ROM, John Wiley & Sons, New York, 681 p. 1999, (C. Klein and C.S. Hurlbut, Jr.).
• "Proterozoic iron-formations," Chapter 10 in Proterozoic Crustal Evolution, (ed., K.C. Condie), Elsevier Scientific Publishing, Amsterdam, p. 383-418, 1993, (C. Klein and N.J. Beukes).
• "Sedimentology and geochemistry of glaciogenic Late Proterozoic iron-formation," in Canada, Economic Geology, v. 88, p. 545-565, 1993, (C. Klein and N.J. Beukes).
• "Rocks, Minerals, and a Dusty World, in Health Effects of Mineral Dusts, (eds., G.D. Guthrie, Jr., and B.T. Mossman, Reviews in Mineralogy, Mineralogical Society of America, Washington, D.C., p. 7-59, 1993, (C. Klein).
• "The Proterozoic Biosphere: A Multidisciplinary Study," (eds., J.W. Schopf and C. Klein) Cambridge University Press, 1348 p. 1992.
• "Geochemistry and sedimentology of a facies transition - from microbanded to granular iron-formation - in the early Proterozoic Transvaal Supergroup, South Africa," Precambrian Research, v. 47, pp. 99-139, 1990 (with N.J. Beukes).
• "Minerals and Rocks: Exercises in Crystallography, Mineralogy, and Hand Specimen Petrology," John Wiley and Sons, Publ., New York, p. 413, 1989.

Since you apparently don't understand what you link, I doubt you will grasp the significance of this newer information

Banded Iron Formations indicate an Oxygenated Atmosphere-Ocean System since ~3.8 Ga

Primary Author: Hiroshi Ohmoto, Penn State Astrobiology Research Center
Presentation Type: Oral Presentation
Session: Tuesday: Earth History

Banded iron formations (BIFs) have played an important role in the development of theories concerning the chemical and biological evolution of early Earth. Most geologists believe BIFs only formed during the periods of 3.8 - 1.8 Ga and 0.8 - 0.6 Ga, in shallow seas, and under an anoxic atmosphere. However, our geological and geochemical investigations of many major BIF districts in the world (Australia, Canada, USA, South Africa, Finland, and Namibia) suggest entirely different scenarios exist. We conclude BIFs formed throughout geologic history due to their occurrence during the Ordovician, Devonian, and other Phanerozoic ages. Most BIFs, especially Algoma-type, formed on deep (>2 km) seafloor, as a result of the mixing of local bottom seawater with locally discharged submarine hydrothermal fluids. The chemistry of local seawater and hydrothermal fluids determines the mineralogy and chemistry of submarine hydrothermal deposits. For example, oxide-type BIFs form where the bottom ocean water is oxygen-rich, carbonate-type BIFs form where the bottom water is anoxic, and sulfide-type BIFs form where sulfate-reducing bacteria are active. The oxygen concentration profile of oceans is related to the oxygen content of the atmosphere. Therefore, the common occurrence of oxide-type BIFs suggests the atmosphere-ocean system has been oxygenated since ~3.8 Ga.

And as for this statement from you ---If you don't have your own, you need one.

I understand your concern since you are the one posting it and you have a demonstrated track record of misrepresentation.

[Gumlegs]

And here I was trying to make sense of that, sentence by sentence, using a piece of paper as the plane. Then I get to your last sentence.

Aw, nuts.

[Quila]

This is the second time I've called you on this. Your statement is, to be charitable, simply illiterate.

He won't because he can't. Even the most often referenced odds-against-evolution document here (Anyone remember? It was discussed on FR) doesn't work. I ran it past a Ph.D. math friend of mine and he says it's convincing -- to the layman who doesn't know any better.

[f.Christian]

The Power of Evolution...

You can be--believe--prove anything...

use it home---on your friends too!

[BMCDA]

And of course it should also be mentioned that the "Origin of all natural laws" the "Creator of the universe, of galaxies, stars, planets and nebulae" was pleased by the sweet savour of burnt offerings (but somehow this is no longer the case). Of course it is also strange that most of those other (false) gods had the same preference for the smell of burning flesh.
Sure, this doesn't disprove His existence but it's evidence of a rather eccentric nature ;-D

[AndrewC]

Why not simply have the Boards of Education allow for all of the mountains of evidence against Darwins theory to be taught in the schools? That is totally in keeping with what the empiricist mafia controlling the scientific community demand. All theories must be able to stand up to scrutiny. Once Darwin's theory is shown to be flawed, students might then be able to look into intelligent design with more of an open mind. That is what I am proposing as candidate for Lieutenant Governor of California.

Good Luck! The examples of the Darwinists logic, civility, and understanding should give you good indication of what a daunting task you have. Even the merest mention of any problem with the theory results in catcalls and the brandishing of the name of Galileo.

[f.Christian]

Morph dreams--morph theories--morph facts--morph proof...morph heads--lives!