*Announcing the launch of Alan Keyes' RenewAmerica project*

RenewAmerica e-mail message ^ | 5/29/02

[Captainpaintball]

It would be far too presumptious of us to think that we behold the end of history.

It could be the end of America, as we know it! I wouldn't want to live in a world where America wasn't the greatest power. Think of what that would be like.

We don't deserve that honor.

Somebody's got to! Why not us?

[EternalVigilance]

Most everything you wrote in your post #140 I totally agree with.

It is always about the principles...and those ideals which transcend personalities and even eras.

But it also always about people too...imperfect people. As much as we idealize the founders, for example, they were all flawed. They knew that themselves, and admitted it freely.

In fact, they knew it so well that they set up a system of separation of powers that guaranteed that as long as the Constitution stood, no single man, or any small clique of men, could gain and hold more power than was wise or healthy.

But despite all of that, we do have a system that is carried forward by individuals. For example, under our system, the President IS the Executive, in his person an entire branch of government.

So, in brief, yes, I agree that it is the ideals and the principles that come first...Alan himself has said the same thing more times than I can count. But we need scores of individuals who actually believe in the founding principles enough to act on them to be raised up in the months and years ahead.

Alan is just one of them...but a very capable one.

But if you sincerely share this worldview with Alan, and I believe you do, I just don't understand why you dislike him so much.

[EternalVigilance]

By the way, if you were referring to Alan 'being rude' to Jocelyn Elders, I have no sympathy...I don't know how any sane thinking individual could be civil for long to that woman. She is a deceiver and a totally despicable human being.

Regards,
EV

[Joe Brower]

I think more important than the leader is the IDEA...or the IDEAL...being aimed for. ... Better, IMHO, to tie the movement to IDEAS, or to SEVERAL leaders, than to one man.

I agree 100%. Upon reviewing the site in more detail, I also agree that there is far too much self-promotion on the part of Mr. Keyes, as worthy an individual as he may be. While I greatly admire the man, he needs to tone it down, for the good of the cause. As Ronald Reagan stated (and I believe he was paraphrasing Benjamin Jowett), "You can get a lot done when no one cares who gets the credit".

The thing I like about Alan Keyes is that he is the ONLY guy in the public eye right now who has the cajones to stand unflinchingly on the principles of the founding fathers. As a strict Constitutionalist myself, I see how 90% of our existing government has no legal mandate. It is out of control. And a return to the principles that created the great American Freedom Experiment is what will save our Republic from it's current slide into immoral empire.

As for his being rude, I simply chalk that up to being a talk show, one of the reasons I don't especially like watching the things. Ever notice how it's OK for lefties to be arrogant and confrontational, but when a conservative does it, there's all this finger-wagging? This is politics, folks, and politics is the conduct of war by other means, and, as David Horowitz so bluntly puts it, in war, if one side is shooting and the other is not, the side that is not is soon dead. It is time to bring the battle to the enemy, and being "nice guys" has obviously not worked too well over the last 60+ years. I am sure that men like Patrick Henry, Sam Adams, et al, were all deemed "rude" and "too confrontational" in their day. On the other hand, a man with the right personality can indeed be positive and uplifting, and still get the job done. I again point to Ronald Reagan as an example of this. Finding the balance is the key, no pun intended.

So again, this effort needs to focus more on it's principles and much less on the man. It is good and necessary to have a leader, but not one who has positioned him or her self to be indispensable . A true grassroots effort would be a Hydra. That truth was fundamental to the success of the first American Revolution, and is just as valid today.

We must win this. Failure is not an option.

[Amelia]

EV, I'm glad to see we're on the same page on something!

So, in brief, yes, I agree that it is the ideals and the principles that come first......But we need scores of individuals who actually believe in the founding principles enough to act on them to be raised up in the months and years ahead. Alan is just one of them...but a very capable one.

I agree with you totally.

But if you sincerely share this worldview with Alan, and I believe you do, I just don't understand why you dislike him so much.

It's more a disagreement with his methods than with his beliefs. I go back to the "rude and arrogant" label he's gotten. I know some people take this as evidence of Alan's "refusal to play politics" and devotion to his principles. The problem is, if you alienate all your would-be allies, who is going to help you?

By the way, if you were referring to Alan 'being rude' to Jocelyn Elders, I have no sympathy...I don't know how any sane thinking individual could be civil for long to that woman. She is a deceiver and a totally despicable human being.

I share your opinion of Jocelyn Elders - and will add that IMO her voice and mannerisms are supremely irritating. However, I was referring to Symix's comments (see posts #57, 79, & 90) and I don't think they were limited to the exchange with Jocelyn Elders. My point was, if Symix, who is by no means a "Keyes-basher", perceives Keyes as being rude from time to time, what must someone who is not familiar with Keyes think?

Symix, I apologize, I'm really not trying to "pick on" you.

[Amelia]

Thank you - I think you've stated this more eloquently than I did. I especially like the following:

A true grassroots effort would be a Hydra. That truth was fundamental to the success of the first American Revolution, and is just as valid today.

We must win this. Failure is not an option.

[EternalVigilance]

I add my bravos and agreement to your comments, sir.

[EternalVigilance]

Thanks for your comments...there are probably few things you and I would disagree on politically.

By the way, I just listened to Alan on Jan Mickelson's program in Des Moines, Iowa (Jan's show is the premiere conservative talk show in the state). Alan and Jan had a great time together, joking and enjoying each others company and intellectual stimulation. At the same time, they discussed in depth great issues and principles and beautifully put them in the context of our current political landscape.

That's the Alan I love and admire...and there wasn't a lick of arrogance or any of that associated with it at all. I hate to be like a broken record, but I just think the man is a national treasure.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

No, he is the only one right now with the time to go spoouting off about it right now, as Bush is a little busy being President. However, if the roles were reversed, I seriously doubt Bush would get the same support from the same people who are in love with Keyes.

I guess we ignore all that George Bush has said and done prior to, and after, becoming President. Where does Bush differ from what you want? Has he dumped the DoI or the Constitution? No. Keyes is a one trick pony with the time for an audience of people with nothing better to do than trash Bush.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Let me sum it up this way. You ever hear the term "Those who can, do. Those who can't teach"?

Well in this case it is similar.

While Keyes is only talking about it, Bush is living it.

Keyes is an empty rain cloud. He will never amount to more than talk. What scares me, and others, is what might happen should he ever be lifted to a position of authority, even dog catcher. Shudders.

[Joe Brower]

Perhaps. And where do you get the idea that since I appreciate Alan for his efforts, I dislike GW? I never said any such thing. Like many other good people, I broke my back in support of his presidential bid in both California and Florida. Not that I'm happy with his signing of both the PATRIOT act and CFR. I ask you: Would Alan Keyes, if he was POTUS, have signed those bills into law?

[Rowdee]

This whole exchange has got to be one of the funniest yet on FR! Never ceases to amaze me that it is quite acceptable to say someone is rude and arrogant, but heaven help you if you respond that someone else is dumb and arrogant!

As if there are thousands of politicians, let alone statesmen, out there willing, let alone able, to discuss the Constitution or Declaration of Independence!

Am I the only one that noticed that the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue couldn't even use the word "Constitution" during his run for office---when talking of taking the oath he would defend the laws and bring dignity and honor----as though that is even a part of the oath! Furthermore, when he was talking of Supreme Court nominees, he used the words 'strict constructionists'---he couldn't do that because they would vote down all this unconstitutional bs that he is for!

Where's all the others--the DeLays, the Lotts, the Gramms, the Armeys, the Hasterts, the Watts, the Craig, the Nichols.....why aren't they out front beating the drum....hmmmmmm? Yep--just bring on all those other well-known beings to get the ball rolling.....the damnable Democrats at least use the word "Constitution" more than the GOP does!!!!

[Joe Brower]

Let me sum it up this way. You ever hear the term "Those who can, do. Those who can't teach"?

And those who can't do either display their prejudice on FreeRepublic?

I have already stated that I myself am not overly fond of Mr. Keyes self-aggrandizement. What is your problem with Keyes, anyway? Did he personaly piss in your Wheaties one morning, or what?

[Symix]

f Symix, who is by no means a "Keyes-basher", perceives Keyes as being rude

I don't think I ever used the term "rude" - just like I discovered on the second viewing that my initial interpretation was wrong, you (I think) took my words of "the host should be gracious to his guests" as me saying Alan was rude. But I did not say and certainly would not mean it - you did, you interpreted it that way. People have a tendency to interpret events in the familiar to them fashion through a prizm of their own bias.

But to more important thing - in 140 you stated:
Better, IMHO, to tie the movement to IDEAS, or to SEVERAL leaders, than to one man.

We are down to only one leader, our last hope.
Your statement has several meanings - one of them is "let's get rid of Keyes because having several leaders is better than one" - the same arguement Democrats used to kill a proposal to cancel a "temporary" gasoline tax where they claimed they would rather support a large 50 cent tax cut that a measly 3-cents... As a result the tax was not canceled. I am afraid you are trying to do the same to Keyes.

Regarding my critique of Keyes - I want him to be better at what he does with the show. What he already does with the show is far above anything anyone else is doing - but he can do it even better! You complain that he is not a perfectly tactful, completely neutral tv host (or a politician). He should not be. A perfect team player never becomes a team leader. It is always personalities who would not pass the ball (I refer to basketball) and take it upon themselves to win the games that become true leaders. Alan Keyes is such a leader. The Republican party (and not its back-broken leadership) should "find" him - this show is an excellent exposure.

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

We are down to only one leader, our last hope.

Really? Only one? Who might that be? What happens if that "one" gets sick? Will we all die?

[Symix]

What happens if that "one" gets sick? Will we all die?

You answer this question. You do have a different perspective fighting to destroy Keyes for so long.

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

When will you Keyesters figure out that your fanatacism is the worst thing you demonstrate in support of Alan? When you start calling him the "only one" and such utter nonsense, your absurdity drives people away.

If our future depends on just one person, we may as well all say good-bye now. Such irrational thinking is not going to lead to attaining your goals.

It's one thing to admire or follow a particular person that one respects; quite another to assign God-like qualities and exclusive savior status. This is not healthy and it's unfortunate that you can't understand that.

Whether you realize it or not, Alan Keyes has lost more than he has gained recently and it is precisely because of his ego and warped attitudes of fans such as yourself.

[Symix]

I move quite rapidly from being called a Keyes-basher to Keyes fanatic in the same thread! :)

As far as your other comments they reflect the attitude Amelia had expressed - if there is only one conservative leader left standing than just give up.

On the other hand the work that is being done here on FR, on conservative radio stations such as Michael Savage, Dennis Praegger and Michael Medved, in Christian institutions, by Dr. Keyes - all of them call for the new leaders to rise. This is the hope you try to kill.

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

all of them call for the new leaders to rise.

Either that bold word is a typo or a plural. If it's the latter, you contradict yourself profusely.

[Amelia]

there are probably few things you and I would disagree on politically.

I think you are correct. AND, there are many things I admire about Alan Keyes. I just disagree with his approach at times, and I wish he'd spend more of his time criticizing liberals and less criticizing fellow Republicans. I'm not saying there isn't room to criticize some of them, maybe even most of them, I just think it would be more productive to criticize "the other side".