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To: yendu bwam
Just as mathematical proofs are available which show that consciousness cannot arise from purely algorithmic functions (i.e. computer programs),

Say what?! This is most definitely not the case. I would recommend that you don't make assertions about mathematics that you really don't understand. It always makes me ill every time discussions start in about even slightly advanced mathematics, because it makes it all too clear just how grossly ignorant most people are when it comes to math. Most of the really interesting parts cannot be digested into something that a layman can understand. Heck, many times math knowledge doesn't even translate well between mathematicians with expertise in unrelated specialties. In other words, it is probably safe to say that you don't know as much as you think you know.

165 posted on 05/29/2002 5:22:26 PM PDT by tortoise
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To: tortoise
OK, Mr. Tortoise. I am not a pure mathematician, though I have advanced degrees in physics (not a purely unmathematical pursuit, I assure you). I have NO idea what you know and don't. However, I will have the pleasure of referring you to Roger Penrose's several books on this matter, where the mathematics are available to you (and which arise in different ways from Goedel's theorem and computation theory). Roger Penrose is probably Britain's greatest and one of the world's greatest applied mathematicians, and is the inventor of twistor theory in physics. He was Stephen Hawkings graduate counselor, and has co-authored many works of highly mathematical physics in the area of general relativity. He has made numerous contributions to the understanding of black holes and entropy theory. If you read his work (and should you perchance be able to understand it), then come back here for a debate. And if you think you know how to create consciousness out of computer algorithms, let me be the first to say congratulations!, you'll have your Nobel prize shortly. Of course, many serious scientists have been attempting to do this for quite some time with no success. And knowing what I know from Penrose, I am not surprised.
197 posted on 05/29/2002 7:47:42 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: tortoise
I would recommend that you don't make assertions about mathematics that you really don't understand.

And finally, I would say, Mr. Tortoise, that you should not make assumptions about what people do and do not understand on this forum, given THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THEM. Maybe you are an ignorant man, and maybe that ignorance will show up over time. But I don't assume that about you at all.

199 posted on 05/29/2002 8:01:53 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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