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To: SSN558
I was watching something on C-Span 2 last week where this guy was telling a congressional hearing about the risk of terrorists getting a hold of a kiloton level device from the Mafiya (Russian Mafia). Thus there is a possibilty that exists of these kooks getting a hold of such material, and UBL's group had actually gotten something from the Mafiya, however it turned out that the mob had hoodwinked them and sold them a dud. However are we willing to be complacent and hope the next time it is also a fake?

However i do agree the greatest threat is probably a radiological dispersal device, not an actual nuke. However such a device would have far reaching ramifications that touched everything from the economy to social decorum. Imagine for example what would happen tot he US economy if one of those devices exploded in WallStreet?

Anyway i also share your views that many freedoms are threatened. And i believe that the moment what makes America America is taken away then the terrorists win, and there is a risk that some over-zealous congress meet might implement laws that curtail freedoms. And that is wrong because it would destroy the spirit of America, which is partly composed of the great freedom inherent in this nation. The US without rights and freedom is no longer the US, just the semblance.

Thus what needs to happen is a union between getting these crazies before they act, and the continual dedication to the great freedoms and rights in this country. Having safety without liberty; and having liberty without safety are both the same. Flawed! What is needed is safety with liberty.

Without safety the liberties of the US are at risk since the lives of Americans is at risk. However without liberty life in the US would be like life in most other nations in the world...... repressed suppressed and oppressed! And if you look at it all over the globe people die for freedom, people suffer for it,and risk all for it. People like Lech Walessa in 80's Poland, people like Mandella during the times of Apartheid S.Africa, people like Ghandi in colonial India. People of all creeds and colors, fighting to have a semblance of what the United States of America has. And as someone who was born and raised outside your borders i can tell you this, loose your freedom and you will discover why so many envy and hold you in praise (and why others hate you).... due to your great and mighty freedoms. And it shocks me when some act like these freedoms are for naught, and thus can be 'switched' on and off.

America is liberty.

12 posted on 05/24/2002 6:55:49 PM PDT by spetznaz
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To: spetznaz
I've always wondered about this "Russian Mafia nuke sale" thing.

It seems to me that any organization, criminal or otherwise, tends to be concerned first and foremost with their own survival. This is manifest in their efforts to procure funds that are used to further the organization or individuals heading the organization. It is my understanding that the Russian Mafia (RM) is largely composed of old Soviet-era officials who have the contacts and know how things "get done", so it would be erroneous to assume that they're stupid or will behave like street thugs.

Smart criminals know that there are limits they can safely push and still do business with a low profile. As long as the "threat" exists that nuclear material could be sold through the RM, then the Russian Government can still milk monetary assistance from the US. But if anyone actually did sell a nuke to some wild and wacky Muslim who in turn floated in into DC I would imagine that it would bring a crackdown like the RM has never seen, and a serious strain on the emerging US-Russia money making machines and killing their golden geese.

In short, why would the RM sell a nuke to a nutball like OBL? They appear to have nothing to gain from it. They're in business to make money for themselves, like most non-Enron businessmen they would likely understand long term repercussions of the nuke trade.

23 posted on 05/25/2002 11:18:56 AM PDT by El Sordo
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