Could the South Have Won?

NY Books ^ | June 2002 ed. | James M. McPherson

[GOPcapitalist]

A prison camp for Confederate prisoners of war was built at Point Lookout, Md., on the tip of the peninsula where the Potomac River joins Chesapeake Bay. In the two years during which the camp was in operation, August, 1863, to June, 1865, Point Lookout overflowed with inmates, surpassing its intended capacity of 10,000 to a population numbering between 12,500 and 20,000. In all, over 50,000 men, both military and civilian, were held prisoner there. G.W. Jones, a private of Co. H, 24th Virginia Cavalry, described his ominous entrance into the prison amidst "a pile of coffins for dead rebels," hearing the lid close shut on his own soon thereafter when he learned that the system of prisoner exchanges had been suspended for the duration of the war. Jones described the camp as laid out into a series of streets and trenches, intended to aid in drainage, and surrounded by a fourteen foot parapet wall. Prisoners, who lived sixteen or more to a tent, were subjected to habitually short rations and limited fire wood in winter, and when the coffee ration was suspended for federal prisoners at Andersonville, the Point Lookout prisoner lost theirs as well. The worst the prisoners suffered, however, may have been inflicted by the physical conditions. The flat topography, sandy soil, and an elevation barely above high tide led to poor drainage, and the area was subjected to every imaginable extreme of weather, from blazing heat to bone-chilling cold. Polluted water exacerbated the problems of inadequate food, clothing, fuel, housing, and medical care, and as a result, approximately 4,000 prisoners died there over 22 months.

from

http://www.clements.umich.edu/Webguides/Schoff/NP/Point.html

[GOPcapitalist]

A prison camp for Confederate prisoners of war was built at Point Lookout, Md., on the tip of the peninsula where the Potomac River joins Chesapeake Bay. In the two years during which the camp was in operation, August, 1863, to June, 1865, Point Lookout overflowed with inmates, surpassing its intended capacity of 10,000 to a population numbering between 12,500 and 20,000. In all, over 50,000 men, both military and civilian, were held prisoner there. G.W. Jones, a private of Co. H, 24th Virginia Cavalry, described his ominous entrance into the prison amidst "a pile of coffins for dead rebels," hearing the lid close shut on his own soon thereafter when he learned that the system of prisoner exchanges had been suspended for the duration of the war. Jones described the camp as laid out into a series of streets and trenches, intended to aid in drainage, and surrounded by a fourteen foot parapet wall. Prisoners, who lived sixteen or more to a tent, were subjected to habitually short rations and limited fire wood in winter, and when the coffee ration was suspended for federal prisoners at Andersonville, the Point Lookout prisoner lost theirs as well. The worst the prisoners suffered, however, may have been inflicted by the physical conditions. The flat topography, sandy soil, and an elevation barely above high tide led to poor drainage, and the area was subjected to every imaginable extreme of weather, from blazing heat to bone-chilling cold. Polluted water exacerbated the problems of inadequate food, clothing, fuel, housing, and medical care, and as a result, approximately 4,000 prisoners died there over 22 months.

from http://www.clements.umich.edu/Webguides/Schoff/NP/Point.html

Another link on Point Lookout may be found at http://www.interment.net/data/us/md/stmarys/ptlookout/

It estimates the death toll there to have been over 14,000

[varina davis]

"His desire was to break the will of the Southerners....whether he did or not is something we can all debate forever."

Sherman obviously failed -- though not for lack of effort.

[bescobar]

Grant whooped Lee, get over it. There can be no finer a soldier than Grant. There can be no finer an example of humanity than Grant. He couldn't be beaten. Sorry for your 140-year distrust in them "Damn Yankees" but the world has moved on. From Shiloh to Appommadix Station, the South could not have won against Grant.

[bescobar]

Appomattox

[bescobar]

I was thinking the other day about the historic parallels between the current war against terrorism and the post civil war era in the United States. Many of the issues the Arab countries face is similar to what the Southern oligarchs faced after the war. It as if the Union forces have won the World War and has to pull in the disgruntled rebels unable to face the basic truth of decency and acceptance of all humanity.

[varina davis]

You poor thing! A shame you were culturally deprived in your youth and lack the inherent good manners that comes with being reared in the South.

[GOPcapitalist]

Ben Butler was a very effective and popular general and politician.

Interesting assertion, Titus. Your "effective" general's exploits are legendary to say the least. Take his attempted invasion of Texas, for example. A mere 44 confederate dock workers under the command of a lieutenant thoroughly routed and repulsed Butler's invasion army of over 5,000 on two dozen warships. They did so with only six cannons in an earthen fort and suffered not a casualty of their own.

His political skills became so popular in New Orleans that they earned him the nickname of "the beast" - largely a result of his order to his troops to treat the women of the city as prostitutes. Sounds like quite a guy. Not to worry, he's in good company among uncultured yankee blowhards like Charles Sumner that you consider among your heroes.

[GOPcapitalist]

Don't worry too much about Mortin. He's from the Charles Sumner school of obnoxious yankees who can't seem to control themselves from shooting their mouths off.

He pretends to be an intellectual, but rather than debate the merits of an issue, he flings manure at anything that disagrees with his extremely uneducated and often downright absurd positions. It's gotten him banned from FR twice before under different names and will likely get him banned again.

[Non-Sequitur]

The confederacy was 'born' in February 1861 and didn't start the war for 6 weeks. In that period they had time to appoint a cabinet, fund an army general staff and an army of 100,000 men, but not establish one of the three branches of government their constitution called for. In the first month of the war they had time to pass a tariff, but not appoint a supreme court. It points out just how unimportant the rule of law was to Davis. But then Davis was the man who said, ""...the true and only test is to enquire whether the law is intended to ancd calculated to carry out the object...If the answer be in the affirmative, the law is constitutional." What did Red Jeff need with a supreme court? The law meant whatever Davis said it meant. Quite convenient. In retrospect what did he need a court for? He knew what he wanted and legalities, well, they would just get in the way.

[Non-Sequitur]

Inthe first place the amendment was done under Buchanan, and was debated and passed a month and a half after 7 states had seceded. Lincoln had nothing to do with it. In fact, since constitutional amendments require a 2/3rds vote for passage, a presidential signature is not even called for.

I'm not sure what Lincoln could have said that would have prevented the rebellion. He said repeatedly that it was not in his power to end slavery and that was not his intention. But he did say expess over and again his personal belief in the evil of slavery, and he did say that he expected that the house would cease to be divided at some point. Maybe that was enough for the secessionist firebrands.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Do you need more? I can probably find some more of those hanged for treason that don't exist.

Thanks for the correction.

Walt