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To: abraxas_sandiego; Cincinatus' Wife
Well then, you've again conceeded a number of points to me. You apparently can't challenge the truth...the embargo has worked.

"Hugo Chavez is not a communist. He was freely elected in internationally monitored national elections in 1998..."

It's actually you who are a bit naive abour politics, you believe that communists can't be elected to office, and that they have to overthrow a government.

Hugo Chavez ordered his troops to fire on his own people as they protested outside his presidential palace just a few weeks ago, he sized control of the media and stopped them from reporting the news, allowing only the state-run media outlet to remain on the air. He's nationalized Venezuela's largest industry (oil) and implemented the concept of neighborhood "watch" committees in the fashion of his mentor, Fidel Castro, he amended the constitution to stay in power longer.

He openly sides with known despots (Fidel) and freely supplies Cuba with free oil to maintain the old dictator's army supplied.

I don't have to remind you that Bill Clinton was freely elected, twice, by a popular vote, and one of the first things he attempted to do after taking office was to socialize health care, roughly 20% of the US economy. Yet, I don't recall Bill calling himself a socialist...do you?

I don't know what YOU call a ruler who orders his people shot for expressing their discontent with his rule (I know what we would have all called Bill Clinton if he had ordered JimRob and the rest of the participants in the March of Justice shot), and openly acknowledges a communist as a role model and mentor. I call them a communist.

People like you eventually do as well...you just do it way too late to do anything about it.

As far as the strong Cuban-American presence in Congress is concerned...you're damned right we have a strong lobby. We haven't suffered the sort of erosion of our moral principles that a good portion of the people of this country seem to have suffered, and we don't practice moral relativity.

Right is right, and wrong is wrong.

Trading with governments who use their people as slave labor is wrong. It's wrong with China, and it's wrong with Cuba. It's sad that we, as a people, can't stand up and demand an immediate moratorium on the China trade. It's even sadder that some are critical of those of us who do stand up to the amoral profiteers who now look to Cuba as a source of income, income supported by brutal repression and murder, and try to paint us as hard-liners.

Learn a lesson from China, trade with the US has brought no changes to the people, it has simply enriched those in power, we've created a stronger enemy, and we've become partners in oppression and human rights violations. We've done that in the name of profits, and cheap goods.

"America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great."
Alexis de Tocqueville

166 posted on 05/23/2002 5:46:12 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Right is right, and wrong is wrong.

Exactly!!

167 posted on 05/23/2002 5:51:28 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Luis:

Honestly, I agree with you for the most part.

I think that one day soon, the fact that China has been funnelling its huge trade deficit into its military is going to come back to haunt us, and that was all in the name of corporate profits thinly veiled by the policy of engagement.

As for Cuba, my only problem with the embargo is that it hasn't engendered enough political or social pressure to force Castro out of office.

Obviously, there's no easy answer to the situation or it would have been done already (the Bay of Pigs would have fit the bill had it been successful).

I'm all for a free Cuba, or a free China for that matter...we'll see what the future holds.

You're an intelligent individual who is obviously passionate about this issue...I appreciate the chance to have been educated by you. I will often argue a viewpoint that I don't really endorse so that I can learn more about both sides.

VIVA CUBA!!!!

170 posted on 05/23/2002 7:15:15 AM PDT by abraxas_sandiego
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