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Bush isn't to blame
Lewrockwell.com ^ | May 20, 2002 | Butler Shaffer

Posted on 05/20/2002 9:56:00 AM PDT by aconservaguy

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1 posted on 05/20/2002 9:56:00 AM PDT by aconservaguy
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To: aconservaguy
Alfred E. Newman?? Riiiight.

Libertarians want to rant about how they aren't liberals, but they jump on the same bandwagon of petty meanness every time. I resent the attitude of the author. He can stick it.

2 posted on 05/20/2002 10:01:34 AM PDT by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
This guy just needs to have a good ass whupping IMHO. That was one of the worst armchair warrior analyses I've had the misfortune to be exposed to...In fact, I'd have to say it was a waste of my time to read it...maybe it shouldn't have been posted even though we have to keep track of what the clymers mumble about as they shuffle through life...This guy gives maroons a bad name...
3 posted on 05/20/2002 10:10:59 AM PDT by sleavelessinseattle
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To: JMJ333
I thought it was a pretty good piece except for this line: spent the day hiding out in an underground bunker near Omaha. Some people are never going to get over this one.

Doesn't it bother you that we have taken few steps to prevent something like this from happening again. Why hasn't more action been taken? Why can't pilots arm themselves? Why can't we use racial profiling when it comes to our security? Why are Clinton's people still working in the Bush administration.

Other than ensure that their jobs are safe, what actions have our elected officials taken?

4 posted on 05/20/2002 10:12:13 AM PDT by GSWarrior
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To: sleavelessinseattle

5 posted on 05/20/2002 10:49:43 AM PDT by JMJ333
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To: GSWarrior
Its not that I am unconcerned about being attacked again. I just resent this smear of Bush as a buffoon who is responsible for everything from 9-11 to the author having a hangnail. Things don't change over night. They happen incrimentally. You have to win the hearts and minds of the populace before you can make big victories. I have been critical of Bush over several issues, but that doesn't change the fact that we are at war and to lay blame at his feet is ridiculous. Want someone to blame?
6 posted on 05/20/2002 10:57:55 AM PDT by JMJ333
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To: aconservaguy
Articles like this make me ponder if Libertarians are dumber than Liberals.
7 posted on 05/20/2002 11:03:29 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: JMJ333
This goes beyond Republican and Democrat. It was a massive breakdown in the system....a result of what our government has turned into.

I like the author's words about our government becoming irrelevant. Look at education. More and more people are sending their kids to private or home schooling environments. Why? Because public education is becoming more and more irrelevant to many parents and these parents simply choose not to support that institution. This is the way governmental gridlock is solved.

8 posted on 05/20/2002 11:04:10 AM PDT by GSWarrior
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To: aconservaguy
This person's analysis is based on fundamental fallacies, his assessment of the facts erroneous, and so his judgments are irrelevant.

"The trillions of dollars spent on military and intelligence systems, over the years, were unable to protect the nation?s largest city from attack, while a president ? whose job, it was believed, was to formulate an effective strategic response ? spent the day hiding out in an underground bunker near Omaha."

So? No amount of money spent, weapons purchased, technologies developed, military units created, security and surveillance systems deployed can possibly create a perfect impermeable shield of defense, within and surrounding a free and open society. Some how, at some time, in some place, determined, some suicidal fanatical and criminal organization can catch us off guard and cause the carnage and atrocity as we saw on 9/11. We can only prepare as best we can, work together for a common defense, try and anticipate our sworn enemy's next move, and arm ourselves with the intent of utterly destroying the threat when and where we can find it. To wait to be struck, of withdraw into our shell, is to do exactly what our terrorist enemies desire. They aren't foolish enough to try and challenge us on the field of battle, but deviously seek to terrorize, divide and disrupt our resolve to find and crush these murderous international criminals. Yet Mr. Shaffer would have us believe that the state, our government, cannot carry out effectively the it's most important constitutionally mandated function; to protect and defend the citizens of our country.

I am a free market capitalist, and a supporter of constitutionally based democratic republican government. You know what that means, and you know why it has been an effective means of maintaining our nation's existence in a hostile world. I see no way markets forces, or decentralized grass roots libertarianism can possibly offer a more effective defense, if at any at all. The author essentially is making the Al Qaida's argument for them: our country can only defend itself by no longer acting like a superpower, withdrawing from the world stage, and to crawl into an illusory shell. History long ago ended any credible argument for this kind of head-in-the-sand ideology of governance, in a world of aggressive totalitarian empires where the United States was the only real counter to their ascendancy. Like the various lunatic fringe leftists, cynically motivated Democrat political schemers, and isolationist populists, the author unwittingly is leaning toward exactly the wrong course of direction for our country- division, defeat, internal squabbling, the use of the situation to jockey for political gain, and the kind of dissembling and equivocation we see here. Nothing could be more stupid, unless of course one's goal would be the ultimate victory of terrorism and totalitarian oppression.

This author is not questioning specific methods or means of resisting terrorism, but whether we should be in a position to need to resist it in the first place. May he fare well in his fantasy world, in the meantime I recommend he not attempt to undermine the consensus for a realistic defense of our country and society, or risk more than just my criticism, certainly!

9 posted on 05/20/2002 11:07:22 AM PDT by Richard Axtell
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To: aconservaguy
On the same day that the White House admitted to Mr. Bush’s pre-September 11th warning, Congress voted to give intelligence agencies a sizeable budget increase. With additional monies being forthcoming to governmental systems after failing to do what they have been paid to do – be they schools, police, or intelligence agencies – why would any of them have an incentive to be competent? Why would any of the rest of us be so gullible as to think they would?

This is a good point. Seems there were warnings about WTC going back to 1993. Our huge bloated gov wasn't able to get out of its own way to protect its citizens...why reward it?

The bloated FBI and CIA were more involved in intra-agency rivalries and using tanks and guns against its own citizens than protecting them, so now what's the answer...more government...!

10 posted on 05/20/2002 11:09:29 AM PDT by JPJones
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To: GSWarrior
No one is doubting the ineffectiveness of the public school system, but insinuating that Bush should have done this...or should have done that...is ludicrous.

I don't appreciate cheap shots coming from petty little minds, who have nothing to do but plot to destroy the president in a time of war. They are just as much of an enemy is al-qaida, imo.

11 posted on 05/20/2002 11:20:54 AM PDT by JMJ333
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To: Richard Axtell, GSWarrior
Well Put, RA!!! I'm moving on from this thread because its header is so vapid, but your submittal makes me glad I checked back...Lets go find something with some meat on it and chew it...GSWarrior, you sound like a poster I reamed a couple days ago that just slept through the Klintonista's...I need to know you're at least a supporter of the NRA and preferably GOA and JPFO, otherwise, forget you. I don't insist that people be totally up to speed, but if you missed the fact that We nearly lost RKBA over those 8 years, you got some serious research to do before you can hold your weight on this forum.
12 posted on 05/20/2002 11:52:56 AM PDT by sleavelessinseattle
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To: aconservaguy
I also suspect that alleged public opinion polls that show high "confidence" ratings for a president during critical times, may also be subject to this desire to reinforce support for the political system. While one cannot know what is in the minds of such polled persons, I wonder how many, when responding "yes" to the question "do you approve of Mr. Bush’s performance?," might be trying to communicate nothing more than his or her support for whatever the government is doing. Such declarations, in a time of perceived crisis, may be more a vote of confidence in the political system, rather than in political leaders, per se.

In lieu of any real world factual examples, it must be comforting to know that you can just make up a theory to support your analysis.

Ever notice that every single one of these so-called libertarian "thinkers" argue "facts" the same way that liberals do?
Coincidence? I think not.

13 posted on 05/20/2002 12:02:40 PM PDT by Cable225
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To: sleavelessinseattle
I support private gun ownership. I guess I'm not equipped to slug it out with all of you "intellectual heavyweights" who automatically dismiss anyone who agrees with LewRockwell.com as antisemitic.
14 posted on 05/20/2002 12:09:20 PM PDT by GSWarrior
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To: Cable225
i agree
15 posted on 05/20/2002 12:18:22 PM PDT by aconservaguy
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To: GSWarrior
I support private gun ownership.

In what material way,GS, or my rapidly eroding impression of you now includes that you are a poser. And where did you get the semitic reference? I'm not Jewish, but I belong to JFPO. Because they are 100% pro Constitution. If you are going to reply that you voted and that was all the contribution you needed to make in opposition to the last Administration, well, I think you already know what I think of you, don't you? You're circling the drain, dude. Best lie and say you're an NRA member.

16 posted on 05/20/2002 12:24:34 PM PDT by sleavelessinseattle
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To: sleavelessinseattle
Oh no, your impression of me is eroding. How will I sleep at nights?
17 posted on 05/20/2002 12:28:06 PM PDT by GSWarrior
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To: JMJ333
Alfred E. Newman

Yep, that's as far as I went, too- cheap insults I can get from the TV set...

18 posted on 05/20/2002 12:33:54 PM PDT by backhoe
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To: GSWarrior;Backhoe
Wow, way to open yourself up for a kill shot. Read the article you're in support of, again, and then contemplate the famous tag line of this character and paraphrase it as "how will I sleep at night". I'll send you $100 if you can dig your way out of this one.

What's it all about, Alfie?

Backhoe, you want to be second?

19 posted on 05/20/2002 2:04:52 PM PDT by sleavelessinseattle
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To: sleavelessinseattle
What would I do if I were the President of Transglobal Airlines? Well, for starters I say, "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking."
20 posted on 05/20/2002 2:26:59 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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