West Nile Virus from Iraq Via Cuba? (My Title)

www.aapsonline.org ^ | 5/15/02

[abigkahuna]

The implications are a little scary. But I thought that former President Carter said there was no bio-terrorism capabilities in Cuba.

[abigkahuna]

My sorry, working with webtv, click on the above link and click on whatsnew on the left. The article will appear in full with additional links on the subject.

[Soul Citizen]

I would wager foot and mouth that hit England came from Iraq bunkers.

[TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!]

Oh OK and Did Jimmy Carter not have tea and lunch in the bio-chem lab, you know they would have given him a tour if such a thing existed. PARDON MY EXTREME < / sarcasm >

[okie01]

"Iraq may have unleashed the West Nile Virus in the United States via Cuba through the release of migratory birds infected with the virus..."

What kind of birds were infected in the NYC outbreak? Were they a migratory species and would their route have taken them thru Cuba? And where else on the flyway might they have nested and spread the infection?

As I'm writing, I'm thinking one of the infected birds in Baltimore was a crow...

[eno_]

That's two WMD attacks, plus anthrax mail. Why is Iraq not a glowing radioactive cinder?

[Mitchell]

Ping.

[3catsanadog]

Wish I could remember where, but just within this past week I saw that the West Nile Virus was heading to the mid-Atlantic states, my own state of Penna. included. The report said to watch for dead birds.

I wonder - if one of my cats killed a bird infected with WNV, could it be passed on to me?

[Mitchell]

Yes, this head-in-the-sand attitude is one of our worst institutional problems.

[RJayneJ]

What does Castro do if the birds decide to fly around Cuba for a while before migrating?

[John H K]

That's two WMD attacks, plus anthrax mail. Why is Iraq not a glowing radioactive cinder?

Because there's nothing remotely resembling credible proof Iraq is directly involved in any of them, and it's a fairly far-fetched concept that West Nile is Iraq; for a "WMD" attack it's pretty pathetic in effectiveness.

[Mitchell]

What kind of birds were infected in the NYC outbreak? Were they a migratory species and would their route have taken them thru Cuba? And where else on the flyway might they have nested and spread the infection? As I'm writing, I'm thinking one of the infected birds in Baltimore was a crow...

Many different species of birds can be infected with West Nile virus. According to a CDC study of 430 birds in the New York City area, conducted in September, 1999, birds of the following species were found to be infected with WNV: Canada goose, domestic goose, mallard/domestic duck, domestic chicken, turkey, mourning dove, rock dove, brown-headed cowbird, and house sparrow. I don't know why crows weren't found in this study, but infected crows have been very common as well. I should add that these species are not particularly closely related.

I don't know about the migratory patterns of these birds, but it would appear that most, if not all, bird species can be infected by West Nile virus (as can many mammals).

[Mitchell]

And where else on the flyway might they have nested and spread the infection?

This argues against the idea that migratory birds were infected in Cuba and then flew to New York City. If that had happened, we would have seen evidence of West Nile virus at some intermediate locations, earlier than the New York City outbreak or at least in the same time frame. But it's clear that the WNV outbreak first emerged in Queens and spread out from there.

By now it's spread to much of the eastern half of the U.S. It's possible that there were additional introductions in places other than NYC later than the NYC outbreak, but it's perhaps more likely that it just spread out from NYC. Either way, New York City is where it started.

[Mitchell]

Because there's nothing remotely resembling credible proof Iraq is directly involved in any of them, and it's a fairly far-fetched concept that West Nile is Iraq; for a "WMD" attack it's pretty pathetic in effectiveness.

Well, there's no definitive proof, but it's not far-fetched either. It clearly wouldn't have been an attack, as you say, but it could have been a test.

In 1999, before the West Nile virus outbreak in New York City, an Iraqi defector stated that Saddam Hussein was working on West Nile virus as a biological weapon and would unleash it in an operational test shortly. A few months later, the outbreak began in Queens. When the initial defector's report came out, West Nile virus was an obscure disease; the fact that someone would predict its use in the immediate future in a biological weapons test just a few months before an outbreak in New York City, the first ever in the Western Hemisphere, is quite remarkable. (The defector's story differed from the eventual truth in some respects. He had said that there would be a very high mortality rate, and also that the release would be in a third world country. Nevertheless, you can see how these sorts of facts could, and probably would, have been misrepresented. He still came up with the right virus.)

For a source, here's one article. You can find more if you're interested; I presume one could look up Richard Preston's article in the New Yorker, as well as the Iraqi defector Mikhael Ramadan's book. (I haven't read these latter two.)

So where do things stand? It's a possibility; that's all one can say.

[BlackVeil]

" foot and mouth that hit England" There was something suspect about that foot and mouth epidemic. Not least because the British govt put "D notices" on some aspects of it, so it could not be fully investigated and reported. I have heard farmers say that it was certainly an engineered epidemic, because it appeared in many different locations at once. Then would be cleared up, and then reappear simultaneously elsewhere. But it may be that all this could happened naturally.

But even if it was an engineered epidemic, that does not necessarily mean bio-warfare. It has been alleged that it was discovered that the sheep flock had been infected with a form of "mad cow" disease, and that this was an acceptable way of wiping them out, without alarming the public further. Anything is possible, especially as there is an automatic "cover up" function when governments confront these problems, partly because they don't want a panic, also because they are always covering their own rear.

I can remember that back in the mid 90s (1996?) we had an anthrax outbreak in Australia. I rang my sister, who lives in northern Victoria, and I said "I hear you have anthrax there, is it true?" She said "Yes, but they are keeping it very quiet."

[BlackVeil]

"the fact that someone would predict its use in the immediate future in a biological weapons test just a few months before ... the first ever in the Western Hemisphere, is quite remarkable." Damn right it is. I didn't realise that.

[isom35]

all that geography is gonna make my head bust open...

[Mitchell]

Yes, this is hard to explain as mere coincidence, although it's certainly not hard proof. I did some searches on this a few months ago, and there is virtually nothing on the web about West Nile virus until the NYC outbreak. Only then did it become a common subject in news articles and the like. It's not as if this was a commonly discussed disease that a defector would naturally have brought up in the first part of 1999. (The NYC outbreak seems to have begun in early August, 1999, and it wasn't identified as West Nile virus until Fall.)

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the heads up!