Posted on 05/18/2002 7:44:57 PM PDT by LarryLied
One measure of a good society is whether its individual members have the autonomy to do as they choose in respects that principally concern only them. The debate about heroin, cocaine and marijuana touches precisely on this. In my submission, a society in which such substances are legal and available is a good society not because drugs are in themselves good, but because the autonomy of those who wish to use them is respected. For other and broader reasons, many of them practical, such a society will be a better one.
I have never taken drugs other than alcohol, nicotine, caffeine and medicinal drugs. Of these, I have for many years not taken the two former. I think it is inimical to a good life to be dependent for pleasure and personal fulfilment on substances which gloss or distort reality and interfere with rationality; and yet I believe that heroin, cocaine, marijuana, ecstasy and cognates of these should be legal and available in exactly the same way as nicotine and alcohol.
In logic is no difference between legal and currently illegal drugs. Both are used for pleasure, relief from stress or anxiety, and 'holidaying' from normal life, and both are, in different degrees, dangerous to health. Given this, consistent policy must do one of two things: criminalise the use of nicotine and alcohol, in order to bring them in line with currently illegal substances; or legalise currently illegal substances under the same kinds of regime that govern nicotine and alcohol.
On civil liberties grounds the latter policy is preferable because there is no justification in a good society for policing behaviour unless, in the form of rape, murder, theft, riot or fraud, it is intrinsically damaging to the social fabric, and involves harm to unwilling third parties. Good law protects in these respects; bad law tries to coerce people into behaving according to norms chosen by people who claim to know and to do better than those for whom they legislate. But the imposition of such norms is an injustice. By all means let the disapprovers argue and exhort; giving them the power to coerce and punish as well is unacceptable.
Arguments to the effect that drugs should be kept illegal to protect children fall by the same token. On these grounds, nicotine and alcohol should be banned too. In fact there is greater danger to children from the illegality of drugs.
Almost everyone who wishes to try drugs, does so; almost everyone who wishes to make use of drugs does it irrespective of their legal status. Opponents say legalisation will lead to unrestrained use and abuse. Yet the evidence is that where laws have been relaxed there is little variation in frequency or kind of use.
The classic example is Prohibition in the USA during the 1920s. (The hysteria over alcohol extended to other drugs; heroin was made illegal in the USA in 1924, on the basis of poor research on its health risks and its alleged propensity to cause insanity and criminal behaviour.) Prohibition created a huge criminal industry. The end of Prohibition did not result in a frenzy of drinking, but did leave a much-enhanced crime problem, because the criminals turned to substances which remained illegal, and supplied them instead.
Crime destabilises society. Gangland rivalry, the use of criminal organisations to launder money, to fund terrorism and gun-running, to finance the trafficking of women and to buy political and judicial influence all destabilise the conditions for a good society far beyond such problems as could be created by private individuals' use of drugs. If drugs were legally and safely available through chemist shops, and if their use was governed by the same provisions as govern alcohol purchase and consumption, the main platform for organised crime would be removed, and thereby one large obstacle to the welfare of society.
It would also remove much petty crime, through which many users fund their habit. If addiction to drugs were treated as a medical rather than criminal matter, so that addicts could get safe, regular supplies on prescription, the crime rate would drop dramatically, as argued recently by certain police chiefs.
The safety issue is a simple one. Paracetemol is more dangerous than heroin. Taking double the standard dose of paracetemol, a non-prescription analgesic, can be dangerous. Taking double the standard medical dose of heroin (diamorphine) causes sleepiness and no lasting effects.
A good society should be able to accommodate practices which are not destructive of social bonds (in the way that theft, rape, murder and other serious crimes are), but mainly have to do with private behaviour. In fact, a good society should only interfere in private behaviour in extremis.
Until a century ago, now-criminal substances were legal and freely available. Some (opium in the form of laudanum) were widely used. Just as some people are damaged by misuse of alcohol, so a few were adversely affected by misuses of other drugs. Society as a whole was not adversely affected by the use of drugs; but it was benefited by the fact that it did not burden itself with a misjudged, unworkable and paternalistic endeavour to interfere with those who chose to use drugs.
The place of drugs in the good society is not about the drugs as such, but rather the freedom and the value to individuals and their society of openness to experimentation and alternative behaviours and lifestyles. The good society is permissive, seeking to protect third parties from harm but not presuming to order people to take this or that view about what is in their own good.
Too much information Buck? Damn that hurts don't it. LOL
Should I post the CSA findings?
Come on, show us the facts to dispute those which I have posted.
Put up or shut up!
It's a quote from the article you're trying to defend, Buckeroo.
Maybe JimRob should have a rule against posting while under the influence of illegal drugs.
The Supreme Court agreed with you eight to zip.
And Buck I wholeheartedly support you. I would love to see a mellowed out Buckaroo around here again. Now there is an idea. All of us "statist" "one-worlders" could just take over with a simple weed. Hmmm. Note to self; bring up at next CFR meeting.
Buck that is good to see.
So again you're feigning ignorance that you can't make the analogous leap from, "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." jumping to the analogy, "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." — THOMAS JEFFERSON
Which makes the quote even less relevant. Jefferson was talking about religious worship.
Thanks for trashing your own "point."
I even posted the following to ground the analogy... "No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him." --Thomas Jefferson
Also, you apparently think it is okay for you to invert Jefferson's context in the first quote. How would you know if your pocket had been picked or your leg broken when the guy across the street may be smoking a joint right now -- how will you know you have been harmed and thus call the police and take the neighbor to court and prove to a jury that the neighbor sitting in his home minding his own business harmed you?
I would have to agree, and yet each year big bucks are spent to allow voters to vote on state initiatives that are basically meaningless. I have to wonder though, about the 'states' involvement in issuses such as drugs when I see superbowl ads that portray users as supporters of terrorism. This is propaganda coming from the State (a lifeless entity without the ability to become addicted to anything- unless one is talking about power, perhaps) and as such, one would think, should be neutral in regards to an issue that concerns individual citizens.
What worries me most is that we may fail to see the collaboration taking place between the State and the law enforcement/prison industrial complex. Were I to build my own private dam on a river, I could see how the State might have an interest in protecting the water 'rights' of those downstream. When I'm stopped for a burned-out taillight I do not see how the State's interests are servered by having my car searched for drugs, guns, or anything else. ie. the folks 'downstream' could care less what's in my car as long as I'm responsible with it.
Paracetamol (note correct spelling) is better known as acetaminophen, i.e., TYLENOL. A double dose of TYLENOL is not normally dangerous; physicians frequently prescribe as much as 1000 mg of Tylenol and Codeine for migranes.
Category Analgesic--Acetaminophen; Acetaminophen and Caffeine Antipyretic--Acetaminophen; Acetaminophen and Caffeine Description Acetaminophen is used to relieve pain and reduce fever. Unlike aspirin, it does not relieve the redness, stiffness, or swelling caused by rheumatoid arthritis. However, it may relieve the pain caused by mild forms of arthritis. This medicine is available without a prescription; however, your medical doctor or dentist may have special instructions on the proper dose of acetaminophen for your medical condition. Acetaminophen is available in the following dosage forms: Oral Acetaminophen Capsules (U.S.) Oral granules (in packets) (U.S.) Oral liquid (drops) for babies (U.S. and Canada) Oral liquid for children (U.S. and Canada) Oral liquid for adults (U.S.) Oral powders (in capsules) (U.S.) Oral suspension (drops) for babies (U.S. and Canada) Oral suspension (liquid) for children (U.S. and Canada) Tablets (U.S. and Canada) Chewable tablets (U.S. and Canada) Acetaminophen and Caffeine Tablets (U.S. and Canada) Rectal Acetaminophen Suppositories (U.S. and Canada) Before Using This Medicine If you are taking this medicine without a prescription, carefully read and follow any precautions on the label. For acetaminophen, the following should be considered: Allergies--Tell your doctor if you have ever had any unusual or allergic reaction to acetaminophen or aspirin. Also tell your health care professional if you are allergic to any other substances, such as foods, preservatives, or dyes. Pregnancy--Although studies have not been done in pregnant women, acetaminophen has not been reported to cause birth defects or other problems. Breast-feeding--Although acetaminophen passes into the breast milk in small amounts, it has not been reported to cause problems in nursing babies. Children--This medicine has been tested in children and has not been shown to cause different side effects or problems than it does in adults. However, some children's products containing acetaminophen also contain aspartame, which may be dangerous if it is given to children with phenylketonuria. Older adults--Acetaminophen has been tested and has not been shown to cause different side effects or problems in older people than it does in younger adults. Other medicines--Although certain medicines should not be used together at all, in other cases two different medicines may be used together even if an interaction might occur. In these cases, your doctor may want to change the dose, or other precautions may be necessary. Tell your health care professional if you are taking any other prescription or nonprescription (over-the-counter [OTC]) medicine. Other medical problems--The presence of other medical problems may affect the use of acetaminophen. Make sure you tell your doctor if you have any other medical problems, especially: Alcohol abuse or Kidney disease (severe) or Hepatitis or other liver disease--The chance of serious side effects may be increased Phenylketonuria--Some brands of acetaminophen contain aspartame, which can make your condition worse Proper Use of This Medicine Unless otherwise directed by your medical doctor or dentist : Do not take more of this medicine than is recommended on the package label . If too much is taken, liver and kidney damage may occur. Children up to 12 years of age should not take this medicine more than 5 times a day . To use acetaminophen oral granules (e.g., Snaplets-FR): Just before the medicine is to be taken, open the number of packets needed for one dose. Mix the granules inside of the packets with a small amount of soft food, such as applesauce, ice cream, or jam. Eat the acetaminophen granules along with the food. To use acetaminophen oral powders (e.g., Feverall Sprinkle Caps [Children's or Junior Strength]): These capsules are not intended to be swallowed whole. Instead, just before the medicine is to be taken, open the number of capsules needed for one dose. Empty the powder from each capsule into 1 teaspoonful of water or other liquid. Drink the medicine along with the liquid. You may drink more liquid after taking the medicine. You may also mix the powder with a small amount of soft food, such as applesauce, ice cream, or jam. Eat the acetaminophen powder along with the food. For patients using acetaminophen suppositories : If the suppository is too soft to insert, chill it in the refrigerator for 30 minutes or run cold water over it before removing the foil wrapper. To insert the suppository: First remove the foil wrapper and moisten the suppository with cold water. Lie down on your side and use your finger to push the suppository well up into the rectum. Dosing--The dose of acetaminophen will be different for different patients. Follow your doctor's orders or the directions on the label . The following information includes only the average doses of acetaminophen. If your dose is different, do not change it unless your doctor tells you to do so. The number of capsules, tablets, teaspoonfuls of oral solution or suspension that you take, the amount of oral granules or powders that you take, or the number of suppositories that you use, depends on the strength of the medicine. Also, the number of doses you use each day and the time allowed between doses depend on the strength of the medicine. For oral dosage forms (capsules, granules, powders, solution, suspension, or tablets) and rectal dosage forms (suppositories): For pain or fever: Adults and teenagers--325 or 500 milligrams (mg) every three or four hours, 650 mg every four to six hours, or 1000 mg every six hours as needed. For short-term treatment (up to ten days), the total dose should not be more than 4000 mg (for example, eight 500-mg tablets) a day. For long-term treatment, the total dose should not be more than 2600 mg (for example, eight 325-mg tablets) a day. Children--Acetaminophen dose is based on the child's age. Infants up to 3 months of age: 40 mg every four hours as needed. Infants 4 to 12 months of age: 80 mg every four hours as needed. Children 1 to 2 years of age: 120 mg every four hours as needed. Children 2 to 4 years of age: 160 mg every four hours as needed. Children 4 to 6 years of age: 240 mg every four hours as needed. Children 6 to 9 years of age: 320 mg every four hours as needed. Children 9 to 11 years of age: 320 to 400 mg every four hours as needed. Children 11 to 12 years of age: 320 to 480 mg every four hours as needed. Storage--To store this medicine: Keep out of the reach of children. Store away from heat and direct light. Do not store acetaminophen tablets (including caplets and gelcaps), capsules, or granules in the bathroom, near the kitchen sink, or in other damp places. Heat or moisture may cause the medicine to break down. Keep the liquid and suppository forms of this medicine from freezing. Do not keep outdated medicine or medicine no longer needed. Be sure that any discarded medicine is out of the reach of children. Precautions While Using This Medicine If you will be taking this medicine for a long time, especially in high doses (more than eight 325-mg or five 500-mg doses a day), your doctor should check your progress at regular visits. Check with your medical doctor or dentist: If you are taking this medicine to relieve pain, including arthritis pain, and the pain lasts for more than 10 days for adults or 5 days for children or if the pain gets worse, new symptoms occur, or the painful area is red or swollen. These could be signs of a serious condition that needs medical or dental treatment. If you are taking this medicine to bring down a fever, and the fever lasts for more than 3 days or returns, the fever gets worse, new symptoms occur, or redness or swelling is present. These could be signs of a serious condition that needs treatment. If you are taking this medicine for a sore throat, and the sore throat is very painful, lasts for more than 2 days, or occurs together with or is followed by fever, headache, skin rash, nausea, or vomiting. Check the labels of all prescription and nonprescription (over-the-counter [OTC]) medicines you now take. If any contain acetaminophen, check with your health care professional . Taking them together with this medicine may cause an overdose. If you will be taking more than an occasional 1 or 2 doses of acetaminophen, do not drink alcoholic beverages . To do so may increase the chance of liver damage, especially if you drink large amounts of alcoholic beverages regularly, if you take more acetaminophen than is recommended on the package label, or if you take it regularly for a long time. Taking certain other medicines together with acetaminophen may increase the chance of unwanted effects. The risk will depend on how much of each medicine you take every day, and on how long you take the medicines together. If your medical doctor or dentist directs you to take these medicines together on a regular basis, follow his or her directions carefully. However, do not take any of the following medicines together with acetaminophen for more than a few days, unless your doctor has directed you to do so and is following your progress : Aspirin or other salicylates Diclofenac (e.g., Voltaren) Diflunisal (e.g., Dolobid) Etodolac (e.g., Lodine) Fenoprofen (e.g., Nalfon) Floctafenine (e.g., Idarac) Flurbiprofen, oral (e.g., Ansaid) Ibuprofen (e.g., Motrin) Indomethacin (e.g., Indocin) Ketoprofen (e.g., Orudis) Ketorolac (e.g., Toradol) Meclofenamate (e.g., Meclomen) Mefenamic acid (e.g., Ponstel) Nabumetone (e.g., Relafen) Naproxen (e.g., Naprosyn) Oxaprozin (e.g., Daypro) Phenylbutazone (e.g., Butazolidin) Piroxicam (e.g., Feldene) Sulindac (e.g., Clinoril) Tenoxicam (e.g., Apo-Tenoxicam) Tiaprofenic acid (e.g., Surgam) Tolmetin (e.g., Tolectin) Acetaminophen may interfere with the results of some medical tests. Before you have any medical tests, tell the person in charge if you have taken acetaminophen within the past 3 or 4 days. If possible, it is best to call the laboratory where the test will be done about 4 days ahead of time, to find out whether this medicine may be taken during the 3 or 4 days before the test. For diabetic patients : Acetaminophen may cause false results with some blood glucose (sugar) tests. If you notice any change in your test results, or if you have any questions about this possible problem, check with your health care professional. This is especially important if your diabetes is not well-controlled. For patients taking one of the products that contain caffeine in addition to acetaminophen: Caffeine may interfere with the results of a test that uses adenosine (e.g., Adenocard) or dipyridamole (e.g., Persantine) to help find out how well your blood is flowing through certain blood vessels. Therefore, you should not have any caffeine for 8 to 12 hours before the test. If you think that you or anyone else may have taken an overdose of acetaminophen, get emergency help at once, even if there are no signs of poisoning . Signs of severe poisoning may not appear for 2 to 4 days after the overdose is taken, but treatment to prevent liver damage or death must be started as soon as possible. Treatment started more than 24 hours after the overdose is taken may not be effective. Side Effects of This Medicine Along with its needed effects, a medicine may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention. Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur: Rare Yellow eyes or skin Symptoms of overdose Diarrhea; increased sweating; loss of appetite; nausea or vomiting; stomach cramps or pain; swelling, pain, or tenderness in the upper abdomen or stomach area Also, check with your doctor as soon as possible if any of the following side effects occur: Rare Bloody or black, tarry stools; bloody or cloudy urine; fever with or without chills (not present before treatment and not caused by the condition being treated); pain in lower back and/or side (severe and/or sharp); pinpoint red spots on skin; skin rash, hives, or itching; sores, ulcers, or white spots on lips or in mouth; sore throat (not present before treatment and not caused by the condition being treated); sudden decrease in amount of urine; unusual bleeding or bruising; unusual tiredness or weakness Other side effects not listed above may also occur in some patients. If you notice any other effects, check with your doctor. Revised: 08/17/2000
That was your attempted leap.
"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him." --Thomas Jefferson
Societal rights and obligations differ from "natural rights."
"I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties." --Thomas Jefferson.
Jefferson wasn't a simpleton, which is why he wasn't a "libertarian."
They are by no means meaningless when the issue is confined to the state alone. However, when an initiative is passed in direct conflict with an existing Federal regulation, law or policy, then it is, by the constitution, null and void. Individuals cannot claim 10th amendment "rights", only state governments have that protection for actions they take as duly elected representatives of the citizens of their state.
Nor do I. I have probably violated at least 5 laws tonight but so far, I have them fooled again. LOL
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