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To: Huck
Show me, don't tell me.

Your position is that the founders - among them Patrick Henry, George Mason, John Marshall, George Wythe, James Madison, James Monroe, John Tyler, Edmund Randolph, Benjamin Harrison, Henry Lee and Edmund Pendleton - didn't understand the law, and wasted almost a month of their time crafting their conditional agreement if it was simply a yes/no decision and such conditions were superfluous?

36 posted on 05/16/2002 3:09:03 PM PDT by 4CJ
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Your position is that the founders - among them Patrick Henry, George Mason, John Marshall, George Wythe, James Madison, James Monroe, John Tyler, Edmund Randolph, Benjamin Harrison, Henry Lee and Edmund Pendleton - didn't understand the law, and wasted almost a month of their time crafting their conditional agreement if it was simply a yes/no decision and such conditions were superfluous?

Not at all. My position is that we haven't established here what their position was. I provided a link. Is it too much to ask for you to provide actual evidence to support your view? You may be right. You just don't seem willing to put any work into demonstrating it.

I skimmed the pertinent part of the debate, and it appeared that they recognized that they could submit a conditional ratification, and I think they even voted on it. But at first glance it appears they voted against a conditional ratification, and chose instead to ratify the Constitution unconditionally. They drafted a resolution whereby they ratified the Constitution (I believe you quoted that portion above), and then they also passed resolutions recommending several amendments to the Constitution.

Maybe I am in error. We won't know until we look at the actual text of the debate. It would be nice if you would bother to do so, but don't worry. I intend to get around to it sooner or later. If there was a vote in the Virginia legislature on whether or not the ratification should be conditional, and if they voted it down, that would seem to be the end of that discussion, wouldn't it? But guess what, even if they voted in favor of a conditional ratification, it still remains unclear to me if such a ratification was binding on the Constitution itself. It seems to me the Virginia legislature took conditional ratificaion, but that only speaks for one state. Anyway, how about doing some research, and building some support for your argument?

40 posted on 05/16/2002 4:16:18 PM PDT by Huck
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Here is the "1st resolution", which passed, whereby the Virginians voted to ratify:

"Whereas the powers granted under the proposed Constitution are the gift of the people, and every power not granted thereby remains with them, and at their will, — no right, therefore, of any denomination, can be cancelled, abridged, restrained, or modified, by the Congress, by the Senate or House of Representatives, acting in any capacity, by the President, or any department or officer of the United States, except in those instances in which power is given by the Constitution for those purposes; and, among other essential rights, liberty of conscience and of the press cannot be cancelled, abridged, restrained, or modified, by any authority of the United States.

"And whereas any imperfections, which may exist in the said Constitution, ought rather to be examined in the mode prescribed therein for obtaining amendments, than by a delay, with a hope of obtaining previous amendments, to bring the Union into danger,

"Resolved, That it is the opinion of this committee, that the said Constitution be ratified. But in order to relieve the apprehensions of those who may be solicitous for amendments, —

"Resolved, That it is the opinion of this committee, that whatsoever amendments may be deemed necessary, be recommended to the consideration of the Congress which shall first assemble under the said Constitution, to be acted upon according to the mode prescribed in the 5th article thereof."

A committee was appointed "to prepare and report a form of ratification pursuant to the first resolution;[that's the one I just posted above] and "Governor Randolph, Mr. Nicholas, Mr. Madison, Mr. Marshall, and Mr. Corbin" composed the said committee.

Has anyone posted this portion of the ratification?

"We, the said delegates, in the name and behalf of the people of Virginia, do by these presents, assent to and ratify the Constitution, recommended on the seventeenth day of September, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-seven, by the federal Convention, for the government of the United States; hereby announcing to all those whom it may concern, that the said Constitution is binding upon the said people, according to an authentic copy hereto annexed, in the words following."

46 posted on 05/16/2002 4:56:57 PM PDT by Huck
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