Libertarians Advocate Drug Legalization: Recipe For Escalating Societal Decay

GOPUSA.COM ^ | May.16,2002 | Carol Devine-Molin

[tpaine]

You asked why your constitutional sincerity was being questioned. Here is merely one example of why. You made this statement at post #437:

Law abiding citizens/societies have every right to restrict personal behavior of individuals, that they deem harmful to society at large. You may consider that socialism, but you'd be wrong. Its law and order that reigns supreme in a civilized society and not chaos and anarchy.

I & two others replied, in detail, but we received little real argument to our comments that your ideas do indeed show a type of socialistic thinking. -- You simply deny the reality of your own words.

You are certainly NOT a 'conservative', in any conventional sense of the word.

[Reagan Man]

I'm not concerned at all, how a braindead libertarian like you, views my political philosophy. I've been involved in politics, in one way, shape or form for the last 35 years. I've knocked heads with the best. I'm confident in my conservative beliefs and traditional American values. I love my country, I've served my country and I don't need to be told by a vermin like you, who I am, how I should think, or what I should believe in. Stuff it, bucko!

You Libertarians have no power, influence or credibility in American politics and never will. Stop attempting to convince people, you know what you're talking about. No ones paying any attention to you and after this reply, I won't be either. The majority of FReepers don't agree with you, or with the extremism of the Libertarian Party Platform.

[tpaine]

Your 'lack of concern' is belied by your silly sputtering insults, with absolutely no attempt to defend your own words or your admitted position. -- Thank you.

[Windsong]

"which is within very broad limits your business, have to do with the question of drug legalization?"

Well there it is. The infinite illogical conclusion that whatsoever ye do in the privacy of one's home (often involving the nose, the arm, and/or a needle) Never Never Never affects anyone outside the home. Tell you what Mr. Brilliant, go do a survey of various security companies around the good ole U.S. of A, and ask them how they feel about their employees doing drugs in their homes. Ask Microsoft how it feels about their employees (programmers, system analysts, accountants, etc) doing drugs at home in their own "private" setting. Ask the school teachers, firemen, police officers, principals, clergymen, and neurosurgeons how THEY feel about it. Ask them if they think it wont affect them in the least if someone next door shoots up/ingests LSD on a weekly basis. Then get back to me.

[apochromat]

It bears repeating: The intrusive unconstitutional internal war you fail to denounce is a primary cause of the social decay you so often decry. To support the intrusive unconstitutional internal war is to support a self-destructive level of government power and an insult to the dignity of every citizen. Every moment that you fail to grasp this fact will most assuredly extend the tragedy further.

[apochromat]

Not too unlike a father who severely beats his own children and then who complains about their poor state of health. I didn't even mention the part about his asking everyone for donations for a new whip.

[JMJ333]

I can't in good conscience give my support to legalization because that would be a promotion of vice, not virtue. There is no redeeming value in drug usage. Parents don't need the extra burden of having to deal with easy access. Its hard enough to raise a child without having to deal with societal acceptance of dangerous substances.

That said, the CA government is a disgusting hypocrite for legalizing a drug like RU-486 on the market, which is far more dangerous that smoking pot and some of the other less harmful narcotics. I am sure Uncle Sam is just itching to follow suit and make the drug available nationwide! Apparently, it is okay with the government if you kill your preborn with a dangerous drug, but not okay to kill yourself by heroin, etc.

[wardaddy]

You're dodging.

[Aedammair]

Thanks for responding to my post.

If your view is the prevailing view among Libertarians then they are a party I could easily vote for. Their website while informative reads as if they've learned nothing about the science and art of governing these last two hundred years. Their belief in the ability to establish rule without the necessity of compromise, is breathtaking and juvenile.

I didn't have a chance to read all of the various planks listed on the site, but their view of how the military should be run would mean we wouldn't even be able to defend ourselves sufficiently should the need arise. I find it hard to believe that they believe their own pronouncements. I had a better impression of them before I visited their website.

By the way, you truly are a classic liberal judging from your replies to my questions. And there is hardly another philosophy around in which you're in such good company.

[Ol' Sparky]

Of course, the Federal government should be involved in stopping the illegal flow of drugs in this nation. Drug trafficking is a Federal issue that spreads across the nation. For the same reason we need an FBI and CIA, we need a DEA. And only a fool would object that.

[Reagan Man]

A majority of Americans fully support the national drug control policy. They consider illicit drug use immoral behavior that undermines the social fabric of our great nation. Efforts to reduce illicit drug use through intervention and incareration, are equally worthy and just causes for our government to be involved in. And they are constitutional. The only thing I will denounce, are the dealers, dopers and drug kingpins, who continue to break the law and who must be removed from society, asap. You do the crime, you do the time. Lock them up and throw away the key!

In addition, those people who support legalization and who act as enablers to these low life scum drug dealers/users, should be ashamed of themselves. There is absolutely no redeeming social value in the use of these drugs. And the idea that these anti-drug efforts are really a war on the American people, is specious rhetoric and an utterly ridiculous contention to make.

[apochromat]

You are wasting your time.

[apochromat]

Don't say you weren't informed. Take my advice and stop making a sad spectacle of yourself by crying about the problems that you've obviously helped create.

[wardaddy]

You are wasting your time

We agree!

[Reagan Man]

You're the one whose constantly whining and crying, about cocaine, heroin, marijuana and other illicit drugs, not being readily available for you to purchase and ingest. LOL Talk about being ill-informed! Your beliefs and values add to the social degradation of our nation and teaches our children no respect for the law of the land, or the rights of others. Support of drug use, is nothing but degeneration, both a moral and intellectual decadence.

Frankly, your libertarian morals come from the the toilet. I suggest you flush, more often.

[Mong]

What was the point of this tread, anyway? Possibly to smear Libertarians?

It seems like Dems (Dems often, because of their stance on gun control) and Repubs both like to smear Libertarians. It's obvious Libertarians are more of threat to the Republican base though, even though there are some Libertarians that lean left of center on economical issues. And not all Libertarians are Randians. Personally, I'm an independant, with some libertarian tendencies...I'm not the type to walk into a voting booth and mindlessly pull all the Dem levers or all the Republican levers. Some would accuse me of being left-of-center on some issues, because I believe Labor Unions played a large role in making a prominent middle-class a reality in this country. Of course, just as one example, I'll state that I like the idea of private property, before a reactionary accuses me of being a Stalin worshipping communist.

Anyway, whether or not this thread was a smear tactic, it's been an interesting debate to read.

[sit-rep]

Yes...

SR

[GregoryFul]

You are right about that. There are a lot of "civilized" (Regan Man's definition) people who are WOD profiteers; lawyers and drug pushers, federal agencies, LEOs, etc. all have a vested interest in keeping drugs illegal. I wouldn't be surprised if Regan Man is among these ilk.

Our God given freedoms have been usurped by a bunch of Godless thieving jacals who would sell us back our liberty.

[Mong]

Mark, thanks for the reply. You should listen to you mother ;) (although I don't always listen to mine...heh). As far as the history, I know Theodore Roosevelt gave an ear to Upton Sinclair after he wrote "The Jungle" ... but, I really don't have the time to research all the arguments regarding whether or not the actual creation of FDA was unconstitutional (and I'm not gonna take your word for it that it wasn't), although a quick google search seems to reveal that the FDA people have engaged in a few Constitutionally questionable activities from time to time.

Anyway, suffice it say for now, that I have plenty bitches about the WoD. The WoD has been blatantly unsuccessful as to its stated purpose (but it has been successful at fattening up agencies like the DEA, enriching their outlaw drug cartel counterparts due price inflation, etc.), and, I think the WoD has done substantionally more harm then good to our country.

Also, here's a couple links you and others might enjoy reading (whether or not you agree with them in whole or in part... I don't agree with every point in the articles myself), if you haven't seen them.

A special report by a Libertarian on the War on Drugs, that brings up the issues of slavery
and the 13th Amendment: http://injusticeline.com/slave2.html

And: http://www.spunk.org/library/writers/black/sp001675.html