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Denver Judge Axes the Constitution - Update of Rick Stanley's 2A/Civil Disobedience Trial
The Stanley for U.S. Senate 2002 Colorado Campaign - News Release ^ | May 15, 2002 | Stanley for U.S. Senate 2002 - Colorado

Posted on 05/16/2002 3:05:12 AM PDT by LibertyRocks

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To: wacko
I think what Roscoe is saying there is since it's addressing the Legislative branch and not either the Executive or the Judicial branches, then the Legislative branch can't violate the 2nd Amendment when creating laws but that the Executive and Judicial branches can protect a Legislative branch that does violate the 2nd Amendment.

Pretty poor thinking.

501 posted on 05/17/2002 1:06:22 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: exodus
Neither Stanley nor any other man can "damage" the right to keep and bear arms.

He can and he did. The productive work of others to establish protective state legislation is now tarnished because a baffoon wanted a cheap headline.

HCI should love Stanley.

502 posted on 05/17/2002 1:14:02 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
"...The many States do not have the power to override the Constitution.."
- exodus

If you don't have any Supreme Court decisions to support your position,
how about something from the Fourteenth Amendment's authors?
# 497 by Roscoe

******************

I have neither, Roscoe.
However, the 14th Amendment is plainly written.

"...No State shall make or enforce any law..."
is just as easy for me to understand as the
"...shall not infringe..." part of the 2nd Amendment.

503 posted on 05/17/2002 1:14:55 AM PDT by exodus
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To: exodus
"Indeed, since, by the unvarying decisions of this court, the first ten Amendments of the Federal Constitution are restrictive only of national action, there was nowhere else to look up to the time of the adoption of the 14th Amendment, and the state, at least until then, might give, modify, or withhold the privilege at its will. The 14th Amendment withdrew from the states powers theretofore enjoyed by them to an extent not yet fully ascertained, or rather, to speak more accurately, limited those powers and restrained their exercise. There is no doubt of the duty of this court to enforce the limitations and restraints whenever they exist, and there has been no hesitation in the performance of the duty. But, whenever a new limitation or restriction is declared, it is a matter of grave import, since, to that extent, it diminishes the authority of the state, so necessary to the perpetuity of our dual form of government, and changes its relation to its people and to the Union." -- TWINING v. STATE OF NEW JERSEY, 211 U.S. 78 (1908)

504 posted on 05/17/2002 1:16:52 AM PDT by Roscoe
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Comment #505 Removed by Moderator

To: Roscoe
Neither Stanley nor any other man can "damage" the right to keep and bear arms.
- exodus


"He can and he did.
The productive work of others to establish protective state legislation is now tarnished
because a baffoon wanted a cheap headline..."
# 502 by Roscoe

******************

The law has no bearing on the right of self-defence.

506 posted on 05/17/2002 1:24:27 AM PDT by exodus
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To: Roscoe
"...The productive work of others to establish protective state legislation is now tarnished
because a baffoon wanted a cheap headline..."
# 502 by Roscoe

******************

It was passive resistence, Roscoe.
Stanley is not a buffoon, he is a courageous man.

Rosa Parks, Gandi, and many others would agree.

507 posted on 05/17/2002 1:27:12 AM PDT by exodus
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To: exodus
Rosa Parks, Gandi, and many others would agree.

You think that they were they kind of blowhards who would challenge Jesse Ventura to a fistfight? Or call for Senator Allard to be hung for treason?

508 posted on 05/17/2002 1:33:37 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
To: exodus
"...the first ten Amendments of the Federal Constitution are restrictive only of national action..."

"...The 14th Amendment withdrew from the states powers theretofore enjoyed by them to an extent not yet fully ascertained, or rather, to speak more accurately, limited those powers and restrained their exercise..."

"..whenever a new limitation or restriction is declared, it is a matter of grave import, since, to that extent, it diminishes the authority of the state..."
-- TWINING v. STATE OF NEW JERSEY, 211 U.S. 78 (1908)

# 504 by Roscoe

******************

Here's what I get from that decision, Roscoe.

State governments are allowed to deny trial by jury, to deny self-defence, to deny free speech, to deny religious freedom, and to deny protest of any kind.

Any State may use torture on it's citizens? Any State can arrest people without cause?

I believe that decision to be flawed.

509 posted on 05/17/2002 1:40:50 AM PDT by exodus
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To: Roscoe
It was passive resistence, Roscoe.
Stanley is not a buffoon, he is a courageous man.
Rosa Parks, Gandi, and many others would agree.
- exodus


"You think that they were they kind of blowhards
who would challenge Jesse Ventura to a fistfight?
Or call for Senator Allard to be hung for treason?"
# 508 by Roscoe

******************

He's a politician, Roscoe.
He wants to be noticed.

I'm sure he knows that a vote isn't grounds for treason.
I guarantee you he doesn't want to go against Ventura.

510 posted on 05/17/2002 1:47:19 AM PDT by exodus
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To: wacko
RKBA...the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
511 posted on 05/17/2002 1:48:21 AM PDT by exodus
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To: exodus
Here's what I get from that decision, Roscoe.
State governments are allowed to deny trial by jury, to deny self-defence, to deny free speech, to deny religious freedom, and to deny protest of any kind.

No, you don't get it all.

512 posted on 05/17/2002 1:49:21 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: exodus
I'm sure he knows that a vote isn't grounds for treason.
I guarantee you he doesn't want to go against Ventura.

I think you're right.

513 posted on 05/17/2002 1:50:51 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
Here's what I get from that decision, Roscoe.
State governments are allowed to deny trial by jury,
to deny self-defence, to deny free speech, to deny religious freedom,
and to deny protest of any kind.
- exodus


No, you don't get it all.
# 512 by Roscoe

******************

"...the first ten Amendments of the Federal Constitution
are restrictive only of national action
..."

Please tell me what that means to you.

514 posted on 05/17/2002 1:59:58 AM PDT by exodus
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To: exodus
Among other things, states have Constitutions.

"After declaring that state and national citizenship co-exist in the same person, the Fourteenth Amendment forbids a state from abridging the privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States. As a matter of words, this leaves a state free to abridge, within the limits of the due process clause, the privileges and immunities flowing from state citizenship. This reading of the Federal Constitution has heretofore found favor with the majority of this Court as a natural and logical interpretation. It accords with the constitutional doctrine of federalism by leaving to the states the responsibility of dealing with the privileges and immunities of their citizens except those inherent in national citizenship. It is the construction placed upon the amendment by justices whose own experience had given them contemporaneous knowledge of the purposes that led to the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment. This construction has become embedded in our federal system as a functioning element in preserving the balance between national and state power." -- United States Supreme Court, ADAMSON V. PEOPLE OF STATE OF CALIFORNIA , 332 U.S. 46 (1947)

515 posted on 05/17/2002 2:07:42 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
To: exodus "Among other things, states have Constitutions..."
# 515 by Roscoe

******************

I see what you're saying, Roscoe. I admire your scholarship, but I believe that I have just as strong a duty to interpret both the law and the Constitution as the Courts do.

My privilege as a citizen is to participate in my government. As a voter, I have a say in who will represent me. As a juror, I decide what the Constitution means, I decide what the laws mean, and I decide if a law is even fit to be enforced.

My authority as citizen is higher than the Court's authority as representatives of my government.

516 posted on 05/17/2002 2:24:10 AM PDT by exodus
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Comment #517 Removed by Moderator

To: LibertyRocks;sinkspur
Grant then asked her a hypothetical question; "If the judge were to instruct you that the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution and Article 2, Section 13 of the Constitution of Colorado are applicable to this case, would you be able to follow that instruction?

While the judge's instructions didn't have the ring of fairness, a county courtroom is not the place to decide the constitutionality of the anti-gun ordinance. What the heck is the purpose of this question, since the judge had already plainly said he was not going to give those instructions? Grant was yanking the judge's chain, and got exactly the response he was looking for -- and deserved. He's a showboat, and it seems Stanley is too.

This whole thing sounds like Stanley is trying to elevate his status within the LP rather than actually win a case or even start a movement. After all, what other LP candidate is getting this much ink in the mainstream press in Denver?

518 posted on 05/17/2002 2:55:51 AM PDT by L.N. Smithee
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To: Poohbah
Political parties can be taken over from within. If that is too much like work for your taste, then that's your problem.

If indeed it's possible, it happened to the Democratic Party with the Communists and it happened to the Republican Party with the Democrats.

If so...then I'll keep on working to restore the Constitution. If not...well then, I'll keep on working to restore the Constitution. However, with respect to American freedom vs. dictatorship, until a more limited government paradigm is adopted, we need to change the cliche from "It can't happen here" to "It is happening here".
519 posted on 05/17/2002 4:04:20 AM PDT by Maelstrom
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To: Spiff
You think Ron Paul's Liberty Caucus is the way to go then? (Republican)
520 posted on 05/17/2002 4:08:02 AM PDT by Maelstrom
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