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To: Diago; neocon; sandyeggo; frogandtoad; Domestic Church; BlessedBeGod; saradippity; maryz...
I AM OUTRAGED! THIS IS AN ABOMINATION. WHAT AN AFFRONT TO GOD!

A Siobhan hopping mad ping....

16 posted on 05/16/2002 9:04:40 AM PDT by Siobhan
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To: Siobhan
I just (finally!) received my copy of Goodbye! Good Men, by Michael S. Rose.

I started reading it last night, and can already tell that it is a good book, with page after page of well-documented proofs about the disobedience and borderline heresy that persists in many dioceses.

I think every Catholic ought to read this book:

Goodbye! Good Men

17 posted on 05/16/2002 9:15:07 AM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Siobhan
I note the article never mentions the 1961 Vatican directive (never rescinded) banning homosexuals from the priesthood.
18 posted on 05/16/2002 9:24:22 AM PDT by maryz
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To: Siobhan ; Diago
re:"openly gay"?

"Openly gay," huh? That's a laugh. It doesn't even meet the liberal idea of ordaining someone with "homosexual" orientation who (theoretically) renounces the perversion and embraces a chaste, celibate, and non-homosexual life, as questionably advocated by those sympathetic to this. The reason why there are valid "Catholic" concerns about ordaining perverts has something to do with the fact that desiring genital relations with the same gender is gravely disordered whereas the heterosexual impulses of a heterosexual man who becomes a priest are normal. The latter is in accord with natural law, the former is not. Being "openly gay" is to seek to define oneself directly and deliberately in terms of sexual identity. In technical terms, it indicates an inordinate attachment to sensuality inconsistent with a Catholic religious vocation. Desiring to have sex with another man is, shall we say, a rather LARGE red flag in the area of the Catholic priesthood. We don't need any more of that. Whenever this unnatural and disordered desire disfigures the public self-presentation and personality of the man in question to a pathological degree raising concerns that it is beyond his self-control, the psychological fitness for priestly ordination has NOT been achieved. This is just common sense. And a good insurance bet.

Bishops and their staff need to consider the damage that is done to the priesthood and the Church when they place homosexuals in official positions in the Church.

19 posted on 05/16/2002 9:26:12 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Siobhan
I AM OUTRAGED! THIS IS AN ABOMINATION. WHAT AN AFFRONT TO GOD!

Thanks, Siobhan. I hope folks will help expose this travesty by forwarding this information (with a link to this thread) to Catholic media outlets like The Wanderer and DioceseReport.com.

27 posted on 05/16/2002 10:24:58 AM PDT by Diago
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To: Siobhan ; Diago
(cover-up, homosexual abuse lead to shooting):

From:washingtonpost.com

Man's Life, Faith Shattered: Family of Suspect in Shooting Says Church Failed to Listen

By Maureen O'Hagan
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 16, 2002; Page A14

In 1976, the Rev. Maurice Blackwell took holy water and poured it over the forehead of the infant Dontee Stokes, baptizing him into the Catholic Church just like every one of Dontee's 46 Stokes cousins.

Now Blackwell lies at Maryland Shock Trauma Center in fair condition with three gunshot wounds allegedly inflicted by Stokes. Stokes is in jail, where guards are watching to make sure he doesn't commit suicide. His family's beliefs have been broken and its strength tested in unimaginable ways.

Yesterday, relatives said none of this would have happened if church officials had listened years ago when Stokes told them that Blackwell had molested him.

"The church didn't want to help," said Stokes's uncle, Charles Stokes Jr. "The church didn't want to believe."

The church was the Baltimore Archdiocese and West Baltimore's St. Edward parish, where Blackwell was pastor and where Stokes's relatives were stalwart members.

His grandfather, Charles Stokes, taught Sunday school and served as a parish corporator, one of just two laypersons whose name was placed on the title of the St. Bernadine Roman Catholic Church property, where Blackwell was first assigned.

Charles Stokes said: "That man could preach. Sitting there, you would think you were listening to Martin Luther King."

Charles Stokes raised his 12 children to be good Catholics, and they, in turn, raised their children the same way. Charles Stokes Jr. considered becoming a priest himself, and a cousin works for the archdiocese.

Dontee Stokes attended Sunday school, and as a teenager was appointed youth group president. After youth meetings, Blackwell often called the young man up to his office for "discussions."

That set Stokes on a devastating course, Tamara Stokes, his mother, said yesterday.

When Dontee was about 14, she said, he began acting differently. She had no idea why. He skipped school and his grades dropped; she put him in the St. Francis Academy, "where the nuns could look out for him."

But Stokes seemed to have the same problems there. He finally told a psychologist that he had been molested, Tamara Stokes said. In 1993, police and the city's Department of Social Services investigated, and Dontee Stokes ultimately took two polygraph tests. The results were deemed credible.

Yet church officials -- the people Stokes had been raised to trust completely -- decided that his allegations were not credible and dismissed them. The effect was devastating.

"The issue was, nobody believed him," even some family members, said Charles Stokes.

"When I told my sister, she broke down and cried," he recalled. "I thought she was crying for Dontee. She was crying for the priest."

The priest was welcomed back to the pulpit warmly; Dontee Stokes and his mother left the church.

So did other family members, their devotion to Catholicism now shattered. "I've now got more Baptists in my family than Catholics," Charles Stokes said of his 70-member clan.

Dontee Stokes began to question his most fundamental beliefs.

"He would go in and out of depressed moods," sometimes refusing to come up out of the basement, Tamara Stokes said.

Once he attempted suicide by swallowing pills. He dropped out of high school. He had trouble holding jobs. He began drinking "to erase what had happened," according to his uncle.

And he became obsessed.

Dontee began collecting clippings of newspaper stories about priests who molested children, his mother said, and he would flip through them constantly. Once, she took them away, and he "tore the house up" looking for them.

Tamara Stokes, a postal worker and real estate broker, decided that her son needed a good job, so she put him through barber school.

For the past five years, Dontee Stokes cut hair at Superman's Barber Shop on Baltimore's west side. There, in recent months, as more and more reports of priests molesting young parishioners blared from the television set, co-workers said Stokes took an ever-increasing interest.

One day, Stokes saw Cardinal William H. Keeler -- who had overseen the investigation of his allegations -- announce that there had been no incidents in the Baltimore Archdiocese since 1980. To Stokes, it was yet another confirmation that his cries had not been heard.

"That was devastating to him," Tamara Stokes said.

On Monday night, Dontee Stokes was leaving his home on Mount Royal Terrace when he saw Blackwell, who had lived around the corner for several years. Stokes asked Blackwell for an apology, but, his grandfather said, the priest just laughed.

And then Stokes, who has no criminal record, did something he's never done before -- he allegedly pulled out a .357 magnum and fired three shots at Blackwell. Then he went down the street, and did something he's been doing all his life. He entered a church and prayed.

"It was a church where he'd never been before," said his attorney, Thomas McNicholas. "They were having some sort of revival. At the end, he asked for the minister's blessing. And then he promptly turned himself in."

Staff writer Hamil R. Harris and Metro researcher Bobbye Pratt contributed to this report.

© 2002 The Washington Post Company

29 posted on 05/16/2002 10:25:29 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Siobhan
I live in the Cleveland diocese, Bishop Pilla just invited everyone from the diocese to hear him talk about some of these problems. He said he was going to have zero tolerance.

There are quite a few things I'd like to see changed. We need to get rid of some of these Judas's.

36 posted on 05/16/2002 11:41:06 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Siobhan
Unless Catholics actually organize and take over their Local Dioceses and get rid of the charlatans in the Hierarchy, the church will slide over the edge into the abyss.

The Present problems in the Church are from Homosexual criminal priests who in their demented lifestyle abused and destroyed the lives of thousands of children.

All of the abuse was allowed by the inaction of the Hierarchy in charge, or because they were compromized and were subjected to blackmail and were by their own fault forced to go along.

If they Believe that Faithful Catholics can accept 60% of the Priests and Bishops being Homosexuals then there will have to be a split in the church.

One branch could be "The Roman Catholic Faithful".

The other Could be "The Roman Catholic? Homosexual".

In the mean time there is a guy who claims to be queer and he intends to be a priest and the rest of us will just have to put up with it.

There is no end to the insult these whackos will impose on the church. If I had to choose between A Catholic Church with 60% of the Priests to be Homosexual and No Church, I'd pick NO CHURCH.

60 posted on 05/16/2002 4:32:55 PM PDT by chatham
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