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God is God, but God gave man a free will. Of course man can and has chosen to sin. That is quite different than saying that man is completely evil. Without Christ as ones Savior, a person is condemned to Hell, but God has offered a way out for man "In that whosoever shall believe in Jesus Christ shall be saved". The words are unambiguous and need no further interpretation. A man chooses to either accept or reject the Gospel message. I am not saying that a person will understand it the first time he hears it, but what many Calvinists seem to overlook is the reality that if God is the one who chose which individuals would be destined to eternal salvation or condemn to Hell, how can a love relationship exist. Without the possibility of of rejection, how can one know true love if the object of our love has no choice in the matter? God is a God of reason, not a God of confusion. Although no man can fully comprehend the mind of God, certainly it is illogical to think that if God loved us so much that he sent His only Son to provide a means of Salvation for mankind that he would predestined someone to Hell without that person having any chance to respond to the Gospel. God gave man a mind and a free will to use and think with.

To say that a man cannot comprehend such a basic logical situation would also require that one admit that Calvinists may be wrong as well, wouldn't it?

A Calvinist will generally admit that predestination does not make logical sense, but claim that in spite of the illogic, they believe it anyway. You think I am kidding? I've had them admit it on Free Republic and can cite from Calvinist literature such statements. Even Calvin had problems with conclusions regarding predestination; I've read his Institutes. Is Calvin God, or is God God?

It seems rather strange that Calvinists will admit that their position on predestination does not make logical sense but accept it without question and at the same time berate those whose reasoning makes more logical sense. It is almost as if they think that a believe in something that makes no logical sense from a human point of view is superior to one that does. That being the case, how can they claim that their positions are superior when they are really only their attempts to explain salvation and its operation. In a way, some Calvinists are using the same logic as Mormons do to explain the God-man relationship. Their explanation makes no logical sense, but insist one accept it based on a mere feeling. The operational logic, or lack thereof, is the same, although I certainly think Calvinism falls within the mainstream of Christian thought while Mormonism certainly does not. The absence of logic does not make a belief more valid or true.

"A Calvinist will generally admit that predestination does not make logical sense, but claim that in spite of the illogic, they believe it anyway. You think I am kidding? I've had them admit it on Free Republic and can cite from Calvinist literature such statements. Even Calvin had problems with conclusions regarding predestination; I've read his Institutes. Is Calvin God, or is God God?"

C, based on your above statement I must conclude that you do not believe in the orthodox Christian doctrine of the Trinity -it is completely illogical -every Calvinist will admit that to you. Logically 'God' can only be one or he can only be 'three' -not 'three-in-one/one-in-three'.

C, is God subject to man's logic? Is God bound by logic? Or is God sovereign over absolutely everything -every natural, scientific, mathematical, logical law you can think of? (i.e. because something is not logical to us -creation out of nothing, the trinity- does not make it wrong or false.)

Jean

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

Man is evil..God is the restraining force that keeps man from being as evil as he could be connect..

It is God's general grace that restrains the evil in the world and allows men to do what other men call good

.Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: