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To: an amused spectator
I found this interesting from post #73 above

Under any other construction of the amendment relating to the [right to keep and bear arms], than that it declared the [right to keep and bear arms] to be wholly exempt from the power of Congress, the amendment could neither be said to correspond with the desire expressed by a number of the States, nor be calculated to extend the ground of public confidence in the government." --- James Madison, REPORT OF 1799 on the Kentucky-Virginia Resolutions

75 posted on 05/12/2002 4:24:55 PM PDT by The Raven
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To: The Raven
We have to do a Columbo on this guy. He has a number of demonstrably false statements in his essay.

Start with a small question, and when he grudging allows that you are correct, keep turning up in your shabby suit with your hat in hand.

From his website:

http://history.stanford.edu/faculty/rakove

"...As something more than a sideline to this broad agenda, I have also become a Madisonian scholar in two senses of the term: first, as his biographer and as a commentator on his constitutional theories; and second, in a normative sense, as someone who has adopted what might be called a Madisonian perspective in my own writings."

Email: rakove@stanford.edu

77 posted on 05/12/2002 4:52:06 PM PDT by an amused spectator
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To: The Raven
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendIIs9.html

William Rawle, A View of the Constitution of the United States 125--26 1829 (2d ed.)

In the second article, it is declared, that a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state; a proposition from which few will dissent. Although in actual war, the services of regular troops are confessedly more valuable; yet, while peace prevails, and in the commencement of a war before a regular force can be raised, the militia form the palladium of the country. They are ready to repel invasion, to suppress insurrection, and preserve the good order and peace of government. That they should be well regulated, is judiciously added. A disorderly militia is disgraceful to itself, and dangerous not to the enemy, but to its own country. The duty of the state government is, to adopt such regulations as will tend to make good soldiers with the least interruptions of the ordinary and useful occupations of civil life. In this all the Union has a strong and visible interest.

The corollary, from the first position, is, that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to congress a power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretence by a state legislature. But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both.

In most of the countries of Europe, this right does not seem to be denied, although it is allowed more or less sparingly, according to circumstances. In England, a country which boasts so much of its freedom, the right was secured to protestant subjects only, on the revolution of 1688; and it is cautiously described to be that of bearing arms for their defence, "suitable to their conditions, and as allowed by law." An arbitrary code for the preservation of game in that country has long disgraced them. A very small proportion of the people being permitted to kill it, though for their own subsistence; a gun or other instrument, used for that purpose by an unqualified person, may be seized and forfeited. Blackstone, in whom we regret that we cannot always trace the expanded principles of rational liberty, observes however, on this subject, that the prevention of popular insurrections and resistance to government by disarming the people, is oftener meant than avowed, by the makers of forest and game laws.

This right ought not, however, in any government, to be abused to the disturbance of the public peace.

An assemblage of persons with arms, for an unlawful purpose, is an indictable offence, and even the carrying of arms abroad by a single individual, attended with circumstances giving just reason to fear that he purposes to make an unlawful use of them, would be sufficient cause to require him to give surety of the peace. If he refused he would be liable to imprisonment.

78 posted on 05/12/2002 5:04:10 PM PDT by an amused spectator
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To: The Raven
Here is a good one:

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendIIs6.html

House of Representatives, Amendments to the Constitution

17, 20 Aug. 1789Annals 1:749--52, 766--67

...Mr. Scott objected to the clause in the sixth amendment, "No person religiously scrupulous shall be compelled to bear arms." He observed that if this becomes part of the constitution, such persons can neither be called upon for their services, nor can an equivalent be demanded; it is also attended with still further difficulties, for a militia can never be depended upon. This would lead to the violation of another article in the constitution, which secures to the people the right of keeping arms, and in this case recourse must be had to a standing army. I conceive it, said he, to be a legislative right altogether. There are many sects I know, who are religiously scrupulous in this respect; I do not mean to deprive them of any indulgence the law affords; my design is to guard against those who are of no religion. It has been urged that religion is on the decline; if so, the argument is more strong in my favor, for when the time comes that religion shall be discarded, the generality of persons will have recourse to these pretexts to get excused from bearing arms.

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This would lead to the violation of another article in the constitution, which secures to the people the right of keeping arms

Whazzup with that???

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the whole ball of wax:

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/tocs/amendII.html

79 posted on 05/12/2002 5:15:13 PM PDT by an amused spectator
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