Two NAS Pensacola Jets Crash In Gulf

TWO TRAINING PLANES FROM N-A-S PENSACOLA COLLIDED THIS AFTERNOON OVER THE GULF OF MEXICO.

THEY'VE LOCATED DEBRIS FROM THE PLANES ABOUT 4O-TO-50 MILES SOUTH OF PENSACOLA BEACH.

THE TWO T-39'S WERE ON A ROUTINE TRAINING MISSION. THEY CRASHED ABOUT THREE-THIRTY THIS AFTERNOON... THAT'S WHEN AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL LOST RADAR CONTACT WITH BOTH PLANES.

THE AIRCRAFT ARE ASSIGNED TO TRAINING AIRWING SIX. CAPTAIN CHAUNCE MITCHELL RECENTLY TOOK OVER AS THE COMMANDER OF THAT AIRWING.

Capt. Chaunce Mitchell/TRAWING 6 CMDR: "Thinking at 600 miles per minute, but also being able to navigate the airplane, communicate as you need to, aviate the airplane and when you get to the fleet - operate the weapons systems and do that effectively is probably where the challenge is."

THE AIRCRAFT ARE UNDER AIRWING 6 - AND ASSIGNED TO TRAINING SQUADRON EIGHTY-SIX.

THAT TRAINING SQUADRON RECENTLY CELEBRATED TWENTY-FIVE YEARS OF MISHAP-FREE FLYING. THE LONGEST STREAK IN NAVAL AVIATION HISTORY.

SO RIGHT NOW.. N-A-S PENSACOLA IS ASSUMING THEY'VE LOST SEVEN PEOPLE FROM ONE OF THE MOST ADVANCED AND TALENTED TRAINING SQUADRONS IN THE NAVY.

As a retired Naval Aviator, Proud Tailhooker ("If your airplane does not have a round engine, a tailwheel and a tailhook, it ain't a real airplane") and the Flight Instructor (Advanced, VT-31, 1972-1975) for the first two fixed-wing female Naval Aviators, I can attest to the fact that there was and there still is a difference in treatment accorded the female Student Naval Aviators.

For example, I was ordered, by telephone (unrecorded, dammit!) by a Rear Admiral in the Pentagon to "ensure that those women get their wings!" This phone call (jumping the Chain of Command, BTW) occurred on the day after their "Fam 1" flight in the TS-2A, wherein each of the ladies in question "earned" a couple of Below Average grades.

It turned out that a third grade sheet, for the ladies only, was sent daily by courier to this Admiral who then "reviewed their progress" daily, and brought such measures to bear as only an Admiral can, to ensure the ladies' success.

I can only surmise that calling a Navy Lieutenant Flight Instructor and his Commanding Officer was part and parcel of the Admiral's directive from on high.

I told him that if they met the standard, they would get their wings. If they did not, they would not.

He called my Skipper and repeated his message. Whereupon the Skipper called me.

I repeated what I had told the Admiral, and suggested that if there was that much concern up the Chain of Command about two lowly female Ensigns, perhaps it would be in order for he and the Admiral to have a personal chat with them about their preparation for each flight. IOW they earned exactly the grades they got, and I was not going to lower my standards.

[I do not know whether that actually happened or not. I continued to apply the same standard of performance to the ladies as I did to all my students. The ladies did not get one single grade on flights with me that they did not deserve. Nor did anyone else, for that matter.]

When I reviewed their flight jackets (I never reviewed a flight jacket before my first flight with a new or "off-wing" student because I did not want to get any erroneous pre-conceived notions about their abilities), I found their flight grades inflated well beyond reason. At a time when the "Average" flight grade was hovering around 3.01, theirs was 3.1+ (upper 5%). Neither of the ladies in question was a 3.1+ SNA!

They both got their wings, BTW, and turned out to be pretty good pilots.

Unfortunately, Barbara Rainey was killed in a mid-air collision several years later while she was serving as a Flight Instructor in Pensacola. I lost track of the other lady in question, but hope that she had a successful career and enjoyed her time as a Naval Aviator.

I'm a female jet pilot, and I assure you that whether you are a good pilot or not does not depend upon gender. There is no dumbing down of standards for women pilots.

While I am in no positition to know if you are a pilot or not, I can say, with no hesitation, that you are wrong when you say that "There is no dumbing down of standards for women pilots". That is uncorrect. the relaxing, and I use the word relaxing kindly, of the rules and requirerments for women in the US Military is without question, a solid fact.

Further, if you are a CIA pilot, then you know your statement to be untrue, therefore a lie.

Nukem

Thanks for the firsthand case in point. As I stated in my remark to the "female jet pilot", in the old days it was the admirals' sons and now it is the girls. I went through Kingsville in the good times - the last machine we flew was the F11F-1, very sweet machine albeit totally underpowered, even in burner. In my [VT-23]flight were three MarCads and one enzyme - the latter the son of an admiral. To put it most gently, the Ensign was a good officer but had no business flying single seat fast noisy machines. Without his pater he would have been standing the midwatch as the OD underway on a destroyer somewhere, not scaring himself in F11's. Now, by the time women were being pushed through naval flight training, I was not in a position to garner specific cases such as the one you describe so well. But let me say this about that. Putting women in tactical squadrons or Marine rifle companies or Seal teams or submarines is morally corrupt and can have no other effect than to vitiate the combat effectiveness of those and other such elite line units. Women have and always have had critical, essential roles to perform in the Marine Corps and the Navy and the other military services. But not in line outfits. Pure and simple, no rocket science, end of statement.

I fully and completely agree with you. Oh, to be SECDEF or SECNAV for a day! Your comment bears repeating, here, and as a separate thread:

"Putting women in tactical squadrons or Marine rifle companies or Seal teams or submarines is morally corrupt and can have no other effect than to vitiate the combat effectiveness of those and other such elite line units. Women have and always have had critical, essential roles to perform in the Marine Corps and the Navy and the other military services. But not in line outfits. Pure and simple, no rocket science, end of statement.

Always great to meet a fellow Tailhooker on the FReeRepublic. You have FReepMail.

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