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To: Who is John Galt?
I think it's obvious that Jefferson contemplated the possibility that a "scission" might someday be attempted, but I don't know that Jefferson ever reached any conclusion as to the constitutionality of a unilateral "secession." In post 142, I provided a quote that indicates that, at least in June of 1798, he felt that "scission" would render impossible the maintenance of a federal government:

"But if on a temporary superiority of the one party, the other is to resort to a scission of the Union, no federal government can ever exist."

It doesn't seem to me to be too great a stretch to assume that since the purpose of the Constitution was to provide a legal structure for the creation and maintenance of a federal government, its very adoption might imply a constitutional infirmity in any doctrine which renders the maintenance of a federal government impossible. However, it would be unfair to consider you or anyone else bound by Jefferson's judgment that "scission" and a federal government are totally incompatible. But that is what he said. At least in 1798. LOL.

The long and the short of it is that, as I've said before, I don't believe that the constitutional claim that was made by the "secessionists" (the argument that unilateral "secession" is constitutional) can be said to be indisputably correct or incorrect. That is true of most constitutional claims that are made.

And although I disagree with the theory, I am not nearly as critical of the constitutional claim that the "secession" states developed as I am the unilateral manner in which they tried to have the claim resolved. I am now learning that many of the more capable southern politicians were advising against unilateral secession. Why were they unsuccessful? Who was in favor of these unilateral secessions and what kind of political levers did they have? There had to be some pretty powerful people behind all of this.

161 posted on 05/18/2002 11:41:28 AM PDT by ned
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To: ned
In post 142, I provided a quote that indicates that, at least in June of 1798, he felt that "scission" would render impossible the maintenance of a federal government...

And I ‘provided quotes' from 1804 (6 years after your citation), 1811 (13 years later), and 1820 (22 years later) that suggest the opposite.

It doesn't seem to me to be too great a stretch to assume...

Yes. That does seem to summarize your position: “assume”...

...that since the purpose of the Constitution was to provide a legal structure for the creation and maintenance of a federal government, its very adoption might imply a constitutional infirmity in any doctrine which renders the maintenance of a federal government impossible.

So, upon your ‘assumptions’ you heap ‘implications.’ How nice...

However, it would be unfair to consider you or anyone else bound by Jefferson's judgment that "scission" and a federal government are totally incompatible. But that is what he said. At least in 1798. LOL.

Particularly given the opinions he voiced 6 years later – and 13 years later – and 22 years later.

“LOL.”

...I don't believe that the constitutional claim that was made by the "secessionists" (the argument that unilateral "secession" is constitutional) can be said to be indisputably correct or incorrect.

You “don’t believe?” My, that is a marvelous foundation for the (supposed) ‘rule of law,’ isn’t it?

I am now learning that many of the more capable southern politicians were advising against unilateral secession.

“More capable southern politicians?” To whom are you referring? The former U.S. Secretary of War? The former U.S. Senator from Georgia? The former President of the United States of America? (Or didn’t you know that a former President of the United States was elected to the Confederate Congress? ;>) Or do you simply categorize all of those with whom you agree as “more capable,” and discount the rest?

“LOL.”

Why were they unsuccessful? Who was in favor of these unilateral secessions and what kind of political levers did they have?

Perhaps you should review the vote totals from those Southern States that confirmed their decisions to secede by means of plebiscite. (Or were you unaware of that aspect as well? ;>)

“LOL.”

There had to be some pretty powerful people behind all of this.

Yes – many were “Southrons,” and many were “constitutionalists.” You would appear to be neither...

“LOL.”

;>)

163 posted on 05/18/2002 1:53:29 PM PDT by Who is John Galt?
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