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Okay, I'll put you in the "Don't Like It" column when it comes to religious freedom. You prefer a Christian Nation. As I said before, tough. The country was founded because of religious freedom.

Or maybe there is no inherent distinction between a "Christian Nation" and "Religious Freedom".

“It cannot be emphasized too often or too strongly that this nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religion but the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It is for this very reason that people of other faiths have been afforded prosperity, asylum, and freedom of worship.”

Remember the teaching of the (distinctly Messianic Christian) Pharisee Rabban, the Apostle Saint Paul of Tarsus:

Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (Romans 13:7)
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. (Romans 13:8)
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Romans 13:9)
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. (Romans 13:10)

Now, what is the teaching comprised herein?

Render to your Rulers that which is their Rightful Due. (Ro. 13:7)
And what is your Rightful Due to any Man? The Law of Neighborly Love (Ro. 13:8)
And what is the Law of Neighborly Love? (Ro 13:9)
- To oppose Adultery
- To oppose Murder
- To oppose Theft
- To oppose Fraud
- To oppose the Coercion or Abuse of that which is your neighbor's
And if there is any other Law, it is comprised in this: you shall not commit Aggression against your neighbor (Ro. 13:10)

And this, therefore, is the entire sphere of that which you Owe to every Man in neighborly Love, including Rulers; and therefore represents the entire Sphere of that which is the State's to Enforce: To oppose Adultery, To oppose Murder, To oppose Theft, To oppose Fraud, and To oppose the Coercion or Abuse of that which belongs to another Man, and And if there is any other Law, it this -- you shall not commit Aggression against your neighbor.

I submit that a Nation founded upon such Pauline (that is to say, Christian) principles is better than any other Principles which may be offered; for even the Orthodox Jews (whom an unbiased Observer must regard as the most Intellectually-Consistent of the Judaic Religion) have no such provision for dividing the Ten Commandments between State and Church; their model (to which they are entirely consistent) is the Theocracy of Israel.

But Rav Sha'ul (Apostle Paul) offers Christian Jews and Gentiles a new Theonomy, the division of the Law between the duties of the Church (worship of God, hatred for Idolatry, honor of True Religion, respect for the Sabbath, obedience to Parents) and the duties of the State (punishment of Murder, punishment of Adultery, punishment of Theft, punishment of Fraud, punishment of Coercion and Abuse).

Thus a Christian Nation is, if constituted according to the Maxims of Christian Paul, a Free Republic in a way which no Judaic or Muslim or Pagan Nation can ever be:

only

To oppose Adultery
To oppose Murder
To oppose Theft
To oppose Fraud
To oppose the Coercion or Abuse of that which is your neighbor's
And if there is any other Law, it is comprised in this: you shall not commit Aggression against your neighbor.

And THAT'S IT. That is ALL that the State is Ordained to Do. Period. Nothing Else.

And now I submit that this creates a dilemma for both Lazamataz and F16Fighter:

LAZAMATAZ has to approach the fact that a "Christian Rabbi", Saint Paul, came up with a better idea of the State than any Orthodox Jew of which I am immediately aware. Where did these nutty Messianics get these great ideas? There is nothing that is Good, save that which is truly of God. What does he think of that??
and F16FIGHTER, meanwhile, has to approach the fact that a True Christian Republic, organized according to the Maxims of Saint Paul, is a good deal more "libertarian" than Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell care to admit. What does he think of that??

Posted to tex-oma, A.J.Armitage, LSJohn for old times' sake; once upon a time, I used to post on the Political Forum

By the way... in ref: to my #172 -- I learned something new recently in reading David Chiltons The Days of Vengeance (an exposition of the Book of Revelation). Do you know what was one of the common inscriptions upon Roman Coins in the days of Caesar Octavian (Augustus), son of Julius Caesar?

Salvation is found in none other save AUGUSTUS, and no other name is given to men by which they can be saved.

These numismatic Inscriptions upon Roman Coinage pre-date the Ministry of Christ. They were known unto all subjects of the Roman Empire.

In other words, one of the most exclusive descriptions of Christ's Lordship, was not a piece of poetic phrasing which the Apostle Peter imagined on his own. The Apostle Peter deliberately and purposely claimed one of the greatest acclamations of Caesar's Lordship, and, for lack of a better word, deliberately urinated upon the claims of Mortal Man.

Against the threat of Roman Crucifixion, that impetuous fisherman Peter stood up against the Jewish Sanhedrin and their Roman patrons, and declared instead:

by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Understand what was going on here, people.

APOSTLE PETER DECLARED OPEN WAR UPON THE MESSIAH-STATE OF ROME.

True Christianity is human treason against the Claims of Man to his own Majesty and Divinity.

That is the very IDEA of our Religion.

So it has ever been.

So it shall ever be.

Everywhere this rulership is affirmed in the NT, in fact, the Lordship of Christ is the fundamental confession of the Christian faith. The Bible says, "If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." These ideas are intimately associated. His being raised from the dead and his lordship which is the end of the trail so to speak. He was raised, but he didn’t stop when he back to earth. He kept going until he was enthroned in heaven. And so the Christian confesses that Jesus Christ has been raised from the dead and is the ruler of the nations. This was the issue that lead to the slaughter of Christians for 300 years in the Roman Empire, because they refused to pay homage to Caesar. And they were told to just burn a little incense. You don’t even have to mean it. They said that they would not even give the indication that there is anyone above Christ. We will be loyal citizens. We will do what the law says. But we will not pay homage to another lord. Jesus is Lord. And for that they were sawn in two. They were cut up, they were stabbed, they were brutally mistreated. They were tarred and burned and they were fed to the lions for the simple, little confession that Jesus is Lord. It is the backbone of the Christian confession. It is the beginning of the Christian life and it will come to a test every now in then in church history.

This is seen to be central in the preaching of Paul as he went to the synagogues. For example in the book of ACT 13 he preached this way at verse 32 "We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers" and that means the gospel. We tell you the gospel. And again these ideas are associated in Paul’s book to the Romans. In chapter 1 he introduces his book this way. ROM 1:1ff "Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God -- the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God," Son of man, Son of God. Jesus Christ our Lord. The Son is the absolute sovereign ruler and possessor of all nations. By the expressed appointment of the Father who has entrusted all judgment to him. ~~ Jewish Christian Presbyter the rev. Steve Schlissel, "Messiah Rules the Nations"

THAT is "Mere Christianity".

If people would only understand, that is all we are talking about...

...and we are talking about nothing less.

Mere Christianity.