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To: inquest
And you should be able to know it with considerably more certainty than you know that the sun's going to rise the next morning.

I know - depending on how stringent our definition of "know" is, of course ;) - that I have experienced pain in the past. Because I have uniformly experienced pain in response to stimuli that would be expected to produce such an effect, I induce that I am very, very likely to experience pain again in the future. But do I know that I will? The evidence for it is of the same order of the evidence that the sun will rise tomorrow ;)

Did you know that there is a class of people who, by virtue of a neurological "defect" they possess, are wholly incapable of sensing pain? That is, they cannot sense pain in any way, shape, or form. At first blush, this might seem to be a good thing, but the world is actually a very dangerous place for them as a result. Pain is an indicator of potential or impending bodily injury or damage, and they can lean up against hot things, step on sharp things, and so forth, all without realizing it - they can unintentionally injure themselves quite badly if they are not very careful in their day to day lives. I wonder if they "know" what pain is?

If not, then maybe the Turing test is starting to show some cracks after all.

It's probably cracked. One of my favorite examples of a Turing test in action is the reversal of the test that occurred some years ago. As you probably know, various AI systems are assembled and put before human testers, and a particular system is judged to have passed the test if the human testers are unable to distinguish it from a human at the other end of the terminal - humans being placed at the other end of some terminals to give some basis for comparison. Usually, testers are fairly good at picking out the computers from the humans.

But there was one system submitted a few years back that was touted as an expert in Shakespeare - it could discuss all things Shakespearian, including the ability to quote and interpret random passages of Shakespeare on demand.

So, come the end of the test, and the verdict from the testers was unanimous - this must have been a computer. Its knowledge and recall of Shakespeare was simply too extensive and flawless. And it was too fast - it recalled Shakespeare with virtually no delay at all, which one wouldn't expect from a person who was simply looking up particular passages. It was judged to have failed the test by virtue of the fact that it had far exceeded what humans were thought to be capable of. They weren't fooled by it.

Except, they were. On the other end of that particular terminal was not a computer at all, but a lady who was a bona fide Shakespeare expert, with the ability to quote entire passages from memory, act by act, scene by scene, verse by verse. If it was in Shakespeare, she knew it.

Computers cannot reliably fool us into thinking they are human just yet. But interestingly, humans can fool us into thinking they are computers without too much trouble at all ;)

744 posted on 05/23/2002 8:07:12 AM PDT by general_re
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To: general_re
Did you know that there is a class of people who, by virtue of a neurological "defect" they possess, are wholly incapable of sensing pain?

I've heard of them, and don't envy them a single bit. Talk about Hell on Earth.

I know - depending on how stringent our definition of "know" is, of course ;) - that I have experienced pain in the past. Because I have uniformly experienced pain in response to stimuli that would be expected to produce such an effect, I induce that I am very, very likely to experience pain again in the future. But do I know that I will? The evidence for it is of the same order of the evidence that the sun will rise tomorrow ;)

OK, but that's not what I'm asking. I'm asking if you know that you do experience pain. In other words, do you know what it actually is? And I'm not asking for a description, because I don't think you can objectively describe it. I just need to know if you're familiar with the beast. Maybe you don't know it'll happen to you again. Maybe you don't even know for sure that it ever happened to you before. But you should still know what it is - in the sense that if someone were to mention the word to you, you would have direct knowledge of what goes along with that word. Am I coming through clearly now?

Computers cannot reliably fool us into thinking they are human just yet. But interestingly, humans can fool us into thinking they are computers without too much trouble at all ;)

"D'Ohh!", by any other name...

745 posted on 05/23/2002 9:27:18 AM PDT by inquest
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