Well, there's that nomenclature problem again. In the early 1860's, when the Southern states attempted to expel the operation of the United States Government within the southern part of the United States, they called it "secession." And just like the fellas who signed the Declaration of Independence, they were met with resistance by the existing government.
There have of course been times when nations and even empires have become fragmented and divided by more or less peaceful means, but that has been the exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately, for the most part, there has been a close and enduring connection between force, violence, wealth and political power.
Your Hawaiian friend's argument that his state's incorporation into the Union is illegitimate sounds a lot like the old argument that the Sixteenth Amendment was never actually ratified. The internet could have been designed for such topics.
No, like I wrote before, 7 southern states seceded for 3 months before any hostilities broke out. The mere declaration of secession didn't start the Civil War. The firing on Fort Sumter did.
Your Hawaiian friend's argument that his state's incorporation into the Union is illegitimate sounds a lot like the old argument that the Sixteenth Amendment was never actually ratified. The internet could have been designed for such topics.
Such discussions bore me. Even with my pathetic lack of a real life, such discussions are essentially meaningless. As I told the Hawaiian guy, the important issue is NOT that Hawaii has a legitimate right to secede. I'll concede that it does, and I imagine that a majority of people in the United States could be convinced of that.
But even though they DO have a right to secede, they DON'T have a right to simply walk away, ignoring their "fair share" of the U.S. debt that was incurred with their blessings. And they also need to address what to do about people in Hawaii that still want to be citizens of the United States. (All thoses Navy personnel and their families stationed in Hawaii aren't going to want Hawaiian independence. Somehow their desires need to be addressed.)