Lincoln s Spectacular Lie

LewRockwell.com ^ | 4/29/02 | Karen De Coster

[ned]

If indivisibility is to be preserved by force, then there cannot be liberty and justice for all".

Honest Abe had a gift for the libertarians:

An Emancipation Proclamation

Because Americans love freedom!

[Aurelius]

"Texas v. White, 1869."

Eight years after South Carolina seceded, in other words, hence irrelevant so far as their secession was concerned. Or were the South Carolinians supposed to prophetically anticipate the Court's decision of 8 years later and recognize their intended action as illegal thereby.

[ned]

A great deal more than that.

I'll double the numbers for you: 208? 556?

I think we're starting to push it, though.

[Aurelius]

I'm afraid I don't get your point. Do you have one?

[Heyworth]

In his interest, in his association, in his habits of thought, and in his prejudices, he was a white man. He was preeminently the white man's President, entirely devoted to the welfare of the white man. He was ready and willing at any time during the first years of his administration to deny, postpone, and sacrifice the rights of humanity in the colored people, to promote the welfare of the white people of this country.
-- Fredrick Douglas, 1876 Sure sounds like words of love to me huh Corky?

Ah, Jeff. Taking quotes out of context, huh? Wanna read what Douglass goes on to say in the same speech?

"When, therefore, it shall be asked what we have to do with the memory of Abraham Lincoln, or what Abraham Lincoln had to do with us, the answer is ready, full, and complete. Though he loved Caesar less than Rome, though the Union was more to him than our freedom or our future, under his wise and beneficent rule we saw ourselves gradually lifted from the depths of slavery to the heights of liberty and manhood; under his wise and beneficent rule, and by measures approved and vigorously pressed by him, we saw that the handwriting of ages, in the form of prejudice and proscription, was rapidly fading away from the face of our whole country; under his rule, and in due time, about as soon after all as the country could tolerate the strange spectacle, we saw our brave sons and brothers laying off the rags of bondage, and being clothed all over in the blue uniforms of the soldiers of the United States; under his rule we saw two hundred thousand of our dark and dusky people responding to the call of Abraham Lincoln, and with muskets on their shoulders, and eagles on their buttons, timing their high footsteps to liberty and union under the national flag; under his rule we saw the independence of the black republic of Haiti, the special object of slave-holding aversion and horror, fully recognized, and her minister, a colored gentleman, duly received here in the city of Washington; under his rule we saw the internal slave-trade, which so long disgraced the nation, abolished, and slavery abolished in the District of Columbia; under his rule we saw for the first time the law enforced against the foreign slave trade, and the first slave-trader hanged like any other pirate or murderer; under his rule, assisted by the greatest captain of our age, and his inspiration, we saw the Confederate States, based upon the idea that our race must be slaves, and slaves forever, battered to pieces and scattered to the four winds; under his rule, and in the fullness of time, we saw Abraham Lincoln, after giving the slave-holders three months' grace in which to save their hateful slave system, penning the immortal paper, which, though special in its language, was general in its principles and effect, making slavery forever impossible in the United States. Though we waited long, we saw all this and more. "

[Aurelius]

"I think we're starting to push it, though."

You, at least, are pushing out what you are producing.

[ned]

I'm afraid I don't get your point. Do you have one?

All but a tiny minority in this country value freedom, the United States of America, and Abraham Lincoln.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Open your eyes. DiLorenzo was exactly right.

DiLorenzo has already shown he has a very nasty penchant for falsehoods.  If you believe that Lincoln was a tyrant, I would suggest that you reference someone not so nearly compromised as DiLorenzo.  He is guilty of (among other things) the "scriptural railsplit" so lovingly perfected by Walter Martin.

[Aurelius]

"All but a tiny minority in this country value freedom, the United States of America, and Abraham Lincoln.

At least a majority of us value freedom and our country, though not necessarily our government. But your statement, I am afraid, fails to hold up.

[one2many]

Thank you for your reply.

At this point r9bet has not told us what he means by what he posted. Until and unless he does so I can do nothing except take him at face value. To read my own inferences into his words would be unfair and disingenuous.

Are you telling me that in order to NOT be "deceptive" I am to "interpret" his sarcasm (that is what he now claims to have been using) instead of simply accepting what he says at face value? I don't think that would be kosher.

If r9bet did not mean to say that he votes straight democrat then he should just say so.

[r9etb]

But this goes to the heart of the matter. A TRUE abolitionist would never had made exemptions, no matter the cause.

Poppycock. A TRUE abolitionist -- especially when he happens also to be president of a country at war -- would have been supremely stupid and irresonsible to ignore practical realities. Lincoln was neither stupid nor irresponsible. He was well aware of the realities, chief among which was the fact that preservation of the Union was a necessary precondition of abolition.

To judge fairly whether Lincoln was something less than an abolitionist requires us to speculate about his post-war approach to slavery. To believe that Lincoln wasn't a "real" abolitionist requires you to believe that Lincoln would have opposed the 13th Amendment -- an idea that is well-nigh indefensible.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Maybe you think this country didn't go in the toilet after that war. Keep grazing

If you are talking of the reconstruction act, that lasted about 10 years and was a blotch on the escutcheon of the North.  The irony is that Lincoln was the only one who could have reigned in the carpet baggers - and he was killed by a southernor.

If you are talking of the country as a whole, I would humbly remind you that the president of the country after Lincoln was assassinated was a southern gentleman by the name of Johnson - not FDR as you imply.

[one2many]

Here's another good one. You know the great thing about the War for Southern Independence is that the victors didn't have the "reach" to be able to suppress the truth forever.

"Any reasonable creature may know, if willing, that the North hates the Negro, and that until it was convenient to make a pretence that sympathy with him was the cause of the war, it hated the abolitionists and derided them up hill and down dale…As to Secession being Rebellion, it is distinctly possible by state papers that Washington considered it no such thing – that Massachusetts, now loudest against it, has itself asserted its right to secede, again and again." --Charles Dickens