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To: ravinson
So you believe that the fact that most freed negroes couldn't afford to move north after emancipation means that they enjoyed life as slaves? You're a real comedian who has apparently never heard of the Underground railroad and slave patrols.

Well, if things were so bad down here - why did ANY stay? Certainly out of 4 MILLION blacks, huge numbers would have fled north.  It's not like the slaves were guarded by men with guns - those men were off fighting in the war.  To the contrary, many remained - "guarded" by women and children.  To insinuate that blacks couldn't flee from such conditions - if they had so desired - is a disservice to them.  But of course, many believe that conditions were bad for blacks in the South, and heaven for them in the north.  Even some northern editors saw the absurdity of that position:

A band of colored musicians from Hagerstown visited this place on Monday last. They discoursed some very fine music through our streets and after enjoying themselves among their "free brethren," on this side the line, returned home to "bondage," in the evening train, very well convinced, we have no doubt, that the worst form of Slavery that can possibly exist may be found among the negroes of Pennsylvania. We believe it is the custom in Maryland, at Easter time, to allow the negroes the largest liberty, and this Band had the audacity, on this occasion, to come into a free State as if for no other purpose than to show the sympathizers of John Brown, deceased, that their pikes and Sharpe's Rifles were not required to improve their condition, and that all the Republican philanthropy expended on the slave could be more appropriately used in bettering the condition of the free negro in the North.
Valley Spirit, Chambersburg, PA, 11 Apr 1860 p. 5 c.2

Regarding the Underground Railroad - it ended in CANADA. The blacks certainly weren't in a rush to settle in Illinois and other northern states.  No welcome mat waiting for them - most prohibited the immigration of blacks. 

Actually, slaveholders received exemption from the draft. They also made liberal use of whips, chains, dogs, and slave patrols to discourage "servile insurrection".  Also, most negroes were smart enough to figure out that their freedom was being won by Union forces.

I thought that ALL southerners were slaveholders. < /sarcasm >;    My gggrandfather didn't own a single slave, he VOLUNTEERED.   And there were many slaveowners that volunteered, ofter accompanied willingly by their slaves.  If most blacks understood that the union for fighting for their freedom, why didn't they join them en masse, or revolt?

The Petersburg Express is informed by Lieut. Daniels, who has just arrived at Petersburg from Fort Norfolk, that some 35 or 40 Southern negroes, captured at Gettysburg, are confined at Fort McHenry. He says that they profess an undying attachment to the South. Several times Gen. Schenck has offered to release them from the Fort, if they would take the oath of allegiance to the Federal Government and join the Lincoln army.  They had peremptorily refused in every instance, and claim that they should be restored to their masters and homes in the South. They say they would prefer death to liberty on the terms proposed by Schneck. 
Staunton Spectator, Staunton, VA, 13 Oct 1863, p. 2, c. 5

A chaplain who, having been left behind with the wounded at Gettysburg, was carried to New York, says that but a few of the negroes captured at Gettysburg took the oath of allegiance to the Yankees. Most of them steadily refused to work or fight for Lincoln. He relates the following conversation between Gen. Morris, U.S.A., and Titus, a negro from South Carolina:
Morris--Well, Titus, are you willing to enlist and fight for liberty under the Stars and Stripes?
Titus--No sir; you may shoot me fust, and den I won't fight ginst my Government.
Morris--Well, Titus, they are going to put you all in the army if you go South.
Titus--Dat's jist what I want, sir.
Staunton Vindicator, Staunton, VA, 13 Nov 1863, p. 1, c. 6

Surely a Confederate paper would only be interested in printing the gospel truth about slavery (particularly just after Gettysburg had rendered their cause so desperate)?

That's why they printed the sory of Mr. Jones - a slave - who donated $465 in gold to the Southern cause.

Henry Ward Beecher is talking about New York City, which was full of Democrats and the poor immigrants they cultivated with warnings about how negroes would take their jobs. That's why they had draft riots there. NYC was hardly representative of the State of New York, let alone the North, with regard to enlightened attitudes about negroes.

The draft riots occurred when Lincoln instituted the draft, white northerners revolted and sacked the city, killing blacks.  The article cited was  prefaced by: "Mr. Beecher says the free colored people at the North", not of NYC.  Check the date of the riots, and that of the EP.  Many saw the war now - not as Lincoln's big lie, but as an attempt to free slaves, which one Pennslyvania newspaper stated that they were "Willing to fight for Uncle Sam", but not "for Uncle Sambo".  The archbishop of New York wrote Seward, and stated

"We have had a week of trouble and apprehension in this city. I think the trouble is now over. The plea of the discontents is, on the surface, the draft. At its bottom, however, in my opinion, the discontent will be found in what the misguided people imagine to be a disposition on the part of a few here and elsewhere to make black labor equal to white labor, and put both on the same equality, with the difference that black labor shall have local patronage over the toil of the white man."

BTW, did the south ever revolt over conscription and kill blacks? 

By the way, do you support open borders?

Open where anyone can saunter into the US at will - no.    Allow foreign terrorists, criminals and such egress - no.   Paying benefits or subsidizing non-Americans - no.    Otherwise to allow immigration to those wishing to immigrate, that want to become Americans, and support America - yes.

176 posted on 05/07/2002 9:14:44 AM PDT by 4CJ
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
BTW, did the south ever revolt over conscription and kill blacks?

In their fashion they did at least half of what you ask. In his book "Look Away: A History of the Confederate States of America" William C. Davis talks about whole sections of states like Alambama and Mississippi where whole counties were held by deserters and draft-dodgers and where representatives of the confederate government dared not go. Governors did their best to undermine conscription by allowing increases in militia and state employees. Were their riots like up North? No. It was worse. It was a concerted effort by civil authority to undermine conscription imposed by the central government. How can you compare civil unrest to that?

179 posted on 05/07/2002 3:53:31 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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