St. Pat Msgr. Hits Gays On Scandal / Blames woes on 'disorder,' U.S. immorality

New York Daily News ^ | 4/22/02 | NICOLE BODE and GREG GITTRICH

[kattracks]

Edward Cardinal Egan's stand-in at St. Patrick's Cathedral pointedly blamed the priest sex abuse scandal yesterday on homosexuality, a "sex-saturated" society and a constant assault on celibacy by liberals.

In a 15-minute homily from the most prominent Roman Catholic pulpit in the city, Msgr. Eugene Clark labeled the United States "probably the most immoral country" in the Western hemisphere. He also called homosexuality "a disorder" and said gay men shouldn't be allowed to become priests.

Clark, 76, a longtime key player and conservative voice in the Archdiocese of New York, delivered his stinging homily as Egan and other U.S. cardinals left for Rome to meet with the Pope about priestly pedophilia.

After preaching about forgiveness, Clark detailed reasons he believes some priests victimized children. He appeared to place most of the blame on homosexuality, saying the theory that people are born gay "is not true."

"The tendency to homosexuality is a disorder, not a sin," he said. "But the practice of homosexuality is truly sinful."

Some parishioners in the packed pews shifted uneasily, others nodded in agreement and a few walked out. But Clark continued, arguing that it was a "grave mistake" to allow gays in the priesthood. He blamed American society for being "very protective" of homosexuality.

"Homosexuality became in the American exchange of views a protected area," he said. "And unfortunately ... homosexual students were allowed to pass through seminaries. Grave mistake. Not because homosexuals in anyway tend to criminality, but because it is a disorder."

'The Most Immoral Country'

Clark also criticized what he called "the campaign of liberal America against celibacy."

He theorized that priests who have a tendency toward sexually abusing children — a group he pegged at 3% of the nation's clergy — were affected by a barrage of sinful images in society.

"Liberated sex is offered to people all day long, all evening long," he said. "There is nothing quite like it."

"We know — we won't mention it outside the cathedral — we are probably the most immoral country certainly in the Western hemisphere and maybe the larger circle because of the entertainment we suffer and what it's done to our [country's] morals ...," Clark said.

Christine Schubert of St. Paul dashed out of the cathedral midway through the homily. "I left because I realized I have no desire to be connected with the institution of the Catholic Church," said Schubert, 27. "I thought, wouldn't it be great if the entire church walked out?"

But few did. Most parishioners stayed, and many applauded Clark after his sermon.

Marianne Duddy, executive director of Dignity/USA, the nation's largest organization of gay Catholics, called Clark's comments linking the sex scandal with homosexuality "incredibly horrifying and irresponsible."

"This is a poor attempt to deflect attention away from the church's culpability for the sexual abuse of minors by priests and its attempt to cover it up for decades," she added.

But Catholic League President William Donohue praised Clark. "He makes a great deal of sense and to have this said so articulately by one of the brighter priests in the New York area is very encouraging," Donohue said.

"The internal problem in the church is a lack of governance and due to diligence," he added. "But there is no question about it — this is a societywide problem that goes way beyond the Catholic Church."

With Gretchen E. Weber

[pbear8]

I personally suspect Cardinal Mahoney, and think the brouhaha about the woman was a sham to cover his real past.

I personally suspect that Mohoney was being 'cosmically punished' for trying to shut down Mother Angelica and EWTN.

[RobbyS]

I have observed that Catholics who pick up Bibles and interpret it themselves and become fundamentalists, or they become atheists. You will remain a "born-again Christian" only so long as you retain that faith given you in Baptism. But the letter alone cannot save.

[steve-b]

Edward Cardinal Egan's stand-in at St. Patrick's Cathedral pointedly blamed the priest sex abuse scandal yesterday on homosexuality, a "sex-saturated" society and a constant assault on celibacy by liberals.

The notion that sin is the fault of everything and everybody except the sinner is hardly the sort of moral teaching one expects from a respectable church.

[pbear8]

I don't recall any condemnation of Mario Cuomo during his years in office. He was against the death penalty......good by church standards, he was FOR abortion.....no comment by the church.

Actually, he received more than one 'from your pastor' letter, requesting that he cease misrepresenting the Catholic position on abortion.

[ejo]

And we all patiently waited for it before moving.

[RobbyS]

I think this shows that there is a split in the Church. Mahoney is, I suspect, one of the Cardinals who is trying to get Law to step down. To which Law might respond:" You first." Mahoney is a divider.

[steve-b]

This speech is more of the circle-the-wagons mentality.... akin to "our priests just cannot help themselves because of popular culture giving us sex 24/7." Nonsense. Where is the grace of God that is supposed to inoculate these men from temptation. This pathetic excuse could be used by any adulterer in America, and it does not wash.

The fact that it took 70 posts before somebody called this Clintonesque blame-dodging what it is says something about FR, and it ain't something good.

[sinkspur]

Would you be in favor of dismissing priests if they have effeminate mannerisms?

I'm all in favor of getting active homosexuals out of the priesthood, but, if a gay priest is celibate but likes floral arrangements, do you kick him out too?

There's not much we can do about gay men already in the priesthood, but better screening will keep active gay candidates out of seminaries. There are probably many gay-oriented men in the priesthood today; maybe they just didn't want to have to deal with questions about why they didn't marry or they thought being this close to God would cure them of their orientation. If a priest is celibate, what difference does his orientation make?

Also, Clarke scapegoats the "immorality of the US" as a factor. Well, millions of people live in this sexed-up society and don't molest young people or commit sexual crimes of any kind.

[RobbyS]

When I sat down to read the papers, I found an article about how Catholic Church Canon Law treats molestation of boys by priests much more leniently then sexual contact by priests with adult women. Well, Since relatively few priests are gay, the potential for mischief is not as great. Not only do boys not get pregnant, they seldom become concubines.

[concerned about politics]

Where is the grace of God that is supposed to inoculate these men from temptation.

The homosexuals said they would infultrate the churches. Maybe they aren't holy men. Maybe they're plants. Once the moral authority of the church is gone, homosexuals have nothing standing in the way of their man/boy love fest.

[Kevin Curry]

Speak the truth and you may be expected to be abused, insulted, condemned, and ridiculed by morality-hating liberals (and libertarians).

Applause for a brave, keen-sighted Msgr.

[Domestic Church]

The only time I've seen people walk out of Mass was during a rare sermon regarding the disorder of homosexuality. What's that about?

Interesting... I saw some older folks walk out of my parish in the past months....no mention of homosexuality in the homily though...but they might have wondered about duplicity and suspected or knew the Priest was gay(blatantly.) We had three wonderful Pastors but our present one has many angered and disgusted. The area is under rapid development so the parish is doubling and collections are increasing.

[RobbyS]

I'm all in favor of getting active homosexuals out of the priesthood, but, if a gay priest is celibate but likes floral arrangements, do you kick him out too? I think you are giving into the stereotype of the gay as a harmless sissy. Homosexual sex. however, tends to be rough and even a small, unmuscular male, properly arounsed, is more than a match for most 12-year old boys.

[RobbyS]

They and their feminist allies are openly taking charge in the Episcopal Church.

[sinkspur]

Well, Since relatively few priests are gay, the potential for mischief is not as great. Not only do boys not get pregnant, they seldom become concubines.

I suspect this is exactly the argument the good old boys in the chancery offices used when they covered up and transferred pederast priests. And we see that the mischief was great, indeed.

It also focuses on the harm done to the Church through scandal rather than the harm to the victims.

Shepherds are supposed to protect the sheep, not the barn.

[Renatus]

Am glad you got in on this. Wonder if you would be so kind as to comment on the Msgr's point that one of the big problems is the "constant attack on celibacy by liberals."

[07055]

I couldn't find the article, but here are the actual canons:

http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/canon/index.html

TITLE V : OFFENCES AGAINST SPECIAL OBLIGATIONS

Can. 1394 §1 Without prejudice to the provisions of can. 194, §1, n. 3, a cleric who attempts marriage, even if only civilly, incurs a latae sententiae suspension. If, after warning, he has not reformed and continues to give scandal, he can be progressively punished by deprivations, or even by dismissal from the clerical state.

§2 Without prejudice to the provisions of can. 694, a religious in perpetual vows who is not a cleric but who attempts marriage, even if only civilly, incurs a latae sententiae interdict.

Can. 1395 §1 Apart from the case mentioned in can. 1394, a cleric living in concubinage, and a cleric who continues in some other external sin against the sixth commandment of the Decalogue which causes scandal, is to be punished with suspension. To this, other penalties can progressively be added if after a warning he persists in the offence, until eventually he can be dismissed from the clerical state.

§2 A cleric who has offended in other ways against the sixth commandment of the Decalogue, if the crime was committed by force, or by threats, or in public, or with a minor under the age of sixteen years, is to be punished with just penalties, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state if the case so warrants.

[Alas]

I have observed that Catholics who pick up Bibles and interpret it themselves and become fundamentalists, or they become atheists. You will remain a "born-again Christian" only so long as you retain that faith given you in Baptism. But the letter alone cannot save.

No my friend, you are wrong, for when was the only man in the Bible whom Jesus promised would be in heaven with Him that day, the thief on the corss baptised?

Here, read:

And there were also two other, malefactors, led with Him to be put to death.

And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left. Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided Him, saying, "He saved others; let Him save Himself, if He be Christ, the chosen of God."

And the soldiers also mocked Him, coming to Him, and offering Him vinegar, and saying, "If Thou be the king of the Jews, save Thyself." And a superscription also was written over Him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on Him, saying, "If Thou be Christ, save Thyself and us."

But the other answering rebuked him, saying, "Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this Man hath done nothing amiss." And he said unto Jesus, "Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom."

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise. Luke 23:32-43

Do you think that perhaps, the Roman soldiers took this thief off the cross and led him to a body of water to be baptised? May be he looked down at the soldiers and said take me down, I have to go sell tootsie rolls" or maybe he just shouted out, "Is there a priest in the house to forgive me, seeing as the sacrice done by this Jesus is not enough."

I have never, and I assure you I know a lot more Born Again Chrsitians who were former Roman Catholics than you do, known of one to give up his or her salvation to become an aethiest.

Are you really willing to bet your salvation on the words of a priest, when it is so easy to read the word of God for yourself? Think about it, what did God come down from heaven to do hanging on a cross and suffering and bleeding, if all that is needed is a man, called father, to fogive you?
Alas

[Slyfox]

Marianne Duddy, executive director of Dignity/USA, the nation's largest organization of gay Catholics, called Clark's comments linking the sex scandal with homosexuality "incredibly horrifying and irresponsible."

But then, on the other hand, she thinks it would be extremely wrong to not allow a pervert the ability to express himself on his young charge. Duddy and her Diddling Dignity Drones is one of the reasons why we have this problem right now.

[sinkspur]

I think you are giving into the stereotype of the gay as a harmless sissy. Homosexual sex. however, tends to be rough and even a small, unmuscular male, properly arounsed, is more than a match for most 12-year old boys.

No. I was responding to your characterization of gays as "limpwrists." I'd like you to answer the question: Do you kick a man out of the priesthood who is celibate but has effeminate mannerisms or makes you uncomfortable?

As I said, I have no problem with booting active homosexuals out of the priesthood (and active heterosexuals, for that matter).

But we need to be very careful to distinguish between priests who are celibate and those who are not.

Or, as I'm beginning to suspect, are you of the opinion that homosexuals are incapable of being celibate?