St. Pat Msgr. Hits Gays On Scandal / Blames woes on 'disorder,' U.S. immorality

New York Daily News ^ | 4/22/02 | NICOLE BODE and GREG GITTRICH

[kattracks]

Edward Cardinal Egan's stand-in at St. Patrick's Cathedral pointedly blamed the priest sex abuse scandal yesterday on homosexuality, a "sex-saturated" society and a constant assault on celibacy by liberals.

In a 15-minute homily from the most prominent Roman Catholic pulpit in the city, Msgr. Eugene Clark labeled the United States "probably the most immoral country" in the Western hemisphere. He also called homosexuality "a disorder" and said gay men shouldn't be allowed to become priests.

Clark, 76, a longtime key player and conservative voice in the Archdiocese of New York, delivered his stinging homily as Egan and other U.S. cardinals left for Rome to meet with the Pope about priestly pedophilia.

After preaching about forgiveness, Clark detailed reasons he believes some priests victimized children. He appeared to place most of the blame on homosexuality, saying the theory that people are born gay "is not true."

"The tendency to homosexuality is a disorder, not a sin," he said. "But the practice of homosexuality is truly sinful."

Some parishioners in the packed pews shifted uneasily, others nodded in agreement and a few walked out. But Clark continued, arguing that it was a "grave mistake" to allow gays in the priesthood. He blamed American society for being "very protective" of homosexuality.

"Homosexuality became in the American exchange of views a protected area," he said. "And unfortunately ... homosexual students were allowed to pass through seminaries. Grave mistake. Not because homosexuals in anyway tend to criminality, but because it is a disorder."

'The Most Immoral Country'

Clark also criticized what he called "the campaign of liberal America against celibacy."

He theorized that priests who have a tendency toward sexually abusing children — a group he pegged at 3% of the nation's clergy — were affected by a barrage of sinful images in society.

"Liberated sex is offered to people all day long, all evening long," he said. "There is nothing quite like it."

"We know — we won't mention it outside the cathedral — we are probably the most immoral country certainly in the Western hemisphere and maybe the larger circle because of the entertainment we suffer and what it's done to our [country's] morals ...," Clark said.

Christine Schubert of St. Paul dashed out of the cathedral midway through the homily. "I left because I realized I have no desire to be connected with the institution of the Catholic Church," said Schubert, 27. "I thought, wouldn't it be great if the entire church walked out?"

But few did. Most parishioners stayed, and many applauded Clark after his sermon.

Marianne Duddy, executive director of Dignity/USA, the nation's largest organization of gay Catholics, called Clark's comments linking the sex scandal with homosexuality "incredibly horrifying and irresponsible."

"This is a poor attempt to deflect attention away from the church's culpability for the sexual abuse of minors by priests and its attempt to cover it up for decades," she added.

But Catholic League President William Donohue praised Clark. "He makes a great deal of sense and to have this said so articulately by one of the brighter priests in the New York area is very encouraging," Donohue said.

"The internal problem in the church is a lack of governance and due to diligence," he added. "But there is no question about it — this is a societywide problem that goes way beyond the Catholic Church."

With Gretchen E. Weber

[Almondjoy]

Well that's certainly an argument that would be hard to contest since we have no basis for comparasion only the fact that we ARE a great nation. Regardless it is up to the people of the nation to determine how they want to live. I can say fortunely I haven't been raised under any other society than ares. Nevertheless it still doesn't take away from the point that people should live to the standards they set for themselves. If the majority are living pretty moral lives great.. but that changes as the majority changes and the majority has no right to force their majority on the miniority in any respect.. political religious or otherwise.

[eastsider]

I concur (again!) that the incidence of ephebophilia is causally and directly related to homosexuality, not celibacy. I am merely pointing out that mandatory celibacy for the diocesan priesthood helped pave the way for a hyperincidence of perverts to begin with.

I also believe the hyperincidence of perverts in the diocesan seminaries started well before the 70s, seeing as some of the more eggregious cases -- Geoghan and Shanley, for example -- were already out of seminary and committing their crimes by the 70s, although the perverts became bolder and more apparent as time went on.

What angers me the most, however, is that the bishops had a heads up about these perverts in the mid-80s, yet continued shuttling them about instead of weeding them out.

[afraidfortherepublic]

We applauded him after the sermon

Thank you. Our priests need all the support they can get. I really appreciate it that you took the time to show your support for Msgr. Clark.

We had a visiting priest yesterday, a young man who normally is assigned to Marquette U. He gave a most powerful sermon and spoke passionately about how he thought that this crisis, although very sad, presented an opportunity for service to God and the Church -- about how he was happier than ever that he had chosen the priesthood as his profession. there are many good men within the Catholic priesthood, and we need to support them. This must be a very grave time for them, because all have been tarred by the sins of a few.

[eastsider]

I know of no one in the scientific community who wouldn't accept cell division, the intake of nutrients and discharge of waste as indicative of life.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

But I wasn't aruging for/against mid-term or late-term abortions now was I?

Got the impression that you were for Roe v Wade, which allows both to occur, although it implies that some (unstated) restrictions may be made. In any case, brain activity starts in the first trimester.

[afraidfortherepublic]

Uphold the laws and values for yourself...

But isn't that just what you said was not my duty, and I countered that it was? Your arguments throughout this thread have been contradictory. Perhaps a course in logic or philosophy would focus your thinking. Syntax, spelling, punctuation, and typing would help too.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

I just find it a little interesting that while some liberals in the media want to focus on celibacy, they are afraid of the homosexual issue. Most of the orthodox and conservative voices who have discussed the scandal have mentioned a new laxity on homosexuality which came into fashion in the 1970s really. Both Richard Neuhaus of First Things and Deal Hudson of Crisis have alluded to this in their publications. I do think that the idea that there is nothing wrong with unconventional sexuality, which came out of the sexual revolution, has something to do with the aggressive behavior in question. The book Goodbye Good Men also has something to say about this. If that book is correct, the disproportionate number of homosexuals and sex deviants has more to do with liberals turning away orthodox and normal heterosexual seminary candidates.

So perhaps the question needs to be broadened to include this. Have orthodox applicants (without homosexual orientations)been rejected by liberals in charge of seminaries and religious orders? Why? Were the people who rejected them homosexuals or pro-homosexual? Who appointed them in such positions of authority? Are there any bishops or, have there been any bishops, who have dealt favorably with active homosexuals for some reason other than just a desire to cover up scandal? The answers to these questions might prove illuminating. Are there any church leaders in the U.S. with enough courage to face up to them? To avoid these and try to throw all the focus on celibacy seems a tad obscurantist and dishonest, if not ideologically biased. It also does not take into account the large numbers of good men who gave up on entering the priesthood in the U.S. because the church here has been so distorted by liberalism, neo-modernist nonsense, liturgical minimalism, socialism-as-Catholicism, and so forth. It would be interesting to know whether that number is higher than orthodox candidates who gave up because of celibacy or other reasons.

But when the suggestion of married priests is offered, the current diviorce rates and adultery rates ought to be considered. I'm not so sure that a married Richard McBrien, for instance, is necessarily going to lead the American Catholic Church into the pneumatic eschatological paradise that some people envision.

[Almondjoy]

Again we are running in circles because you avoid a definition of life... find me a scientist that can say that a human being has a mind of it's own and at what age.. life in cells means nothing to this arguement.

[Almondjoy]

I'm trying to avoid the details of the case itself cause we could argue "well in this instance.. in that instance" and I'm not really trying to argue for abortion is a good thing.. I'm personally against it.. but regardless of that my arguement is that no matter how I feel about it.. unless you can prove it's murder then it's a legal right of the person having an abortion to get it.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

It is easy for me. I consider murder to be the deliberate taking of the life of a member of the species Homo sapiens without due process.

[RobbyS]

I think it significant that John Wesley, the great evangelistand a saintly man, is remembered as a poor husband, because of all the time he spent away from home. Clerical marriage puts a burden on the wife; Luther was fortunate that he found a good woman. Kate was the best thing that happened to Martin Luther and his affection for --and pride in her abilities-- is one reason why I like and pray for the old Heresiarch. Even so, she and her children suffered from lack of support after his death. It is no bed of roses. Rather; one feels the thorns when lying on it.

[Almondjoy]

Bah English class was overrated and it's much faster to type in this manner since i'm at work and have to focus on several things at once. As for my statements... sigh... maybe I'm not the one for words but you are misunderstanding me. You said you should uphold your values by inducing them into other people.. action isn't the same as upholding. You are advocating your beliefs and your values should be instilled or forced onto society. Upholding one's value's is living up to them yourself... sure you can teach or pray or council people to see the light of your values.. but that is much different than slapping a law in front of them and saying I command it. Maybe that explains my position better for you?

[Clint N. Suhks]

No less than Freud thought homosexuality is normal, …

Freud called it perversion until he coined his own terminology and called it “inversion”. Regardless he held it as pathology.

[Almondjoy]

Well there we go.. that's where we can agree to disagree.

[Clint N. Suhks]

it is up to the people of the nation to determine how they want to live

No problem with incest or bestiality either huh?

[eastsider]

I've given you three conditions for life, so it's not me who's avoiding a definition of life, it's you who won't accept one. Furthermore, it's not just life in cells that's occurs after conception, but the development growth of an individual (except in cases where the zygote splits).

[afraidfortherepublic]

Au contraire... You should have paid more attention in English class. You should really have taken some logic and some philosophy, too. Critical thinking and writing would have been a good course, as well.

Go back and re-read what you have written. You may identify some of the holes in your own arguments, if you can decifer them through all of the misspellings and misplaced modifiers, etc.

Sweetie, (that's a pun on your screen name, not my opinion of you) your arguments are full of holes and really quite anti-American.

[Almondjoy]

Why do you say.. "you" as if I have this crusade to committ these horrible acts myself.. I care not to even dignify you with an answer...

[Almondjoy]

I'll give you my definition for life right here. What I feel is life is when the fetus inside the womb is able to function outside of the body(medically assisted or not since babies born pre-mature can be given a full life thorough help). For the most part this is considered the 3rd trimester when a fetus can technically live outside the womb(nevermind the specifics if you want to argue that's at 4 months that's fine with me).

[Almondjoy]

Please point out my holes to me.. and since I did just clarify for you what I've been saying how come no response? I'll just assume that I was right and you just had a problem with my english... thanks! In any case how dare you call me anti-american.. as if you know what an American is.