St. Pat Msgr. Hits Gays On Scandal / Blames woes on 'disorder,' U.S. immorality

New York Daily News ^ | 4/22/02 | NICOLE BODE and GREG GITTRICH

[kattracks]

Edward Cardinal Egan's stand-in at St. Patrick's Cathedral pointedly blamed the priest sex abuse scandal yesterday on homosexuality, a "sex-saturated" society and a constant assault on celibacy by liberals.

In a 15-minute homily from the most prominent Roman Catholic pulpit in the city, Msgr. Eugene Clark labeled the United States "probably the most immoral country" in the Western hemisphere. He also called homosexuality "a disorder" and said gay men shouldn't be allowed to become priests.

Clark, 76, a longtime key player and conservative voice in the Archdiocese of New York, delivered his stinging homily as Egan and other U.S. cardinals left for Rome to meet with the Pope about priestly pedophilia.

After preaching about forgiveness, Clark detailed reasons he believes some priests victimized children. He appeared to place most of the blame on homosexuality, saying the theory that people are born gay "is not true."

"The tendency to homosexuality is a disorder, not a sin," he said. "But the practice of homosexuality is truly sinful."

Some parishioners in the packed pews shifted uneasily, others nodded in agreement and a few walked out. But Clark continued, arguing that it was a "grave mistake" to allow gays in the priesthood. He blamed American society for being "very protective" of homosexuality.

"Homosexuality became in the American exchange of views a protected area," he said. "And unfortunately ... homosexual students were allowed to pass through seminaries. Grave mistake. Not because homosexuals in anyway tend to criminality, but because it is a disorder."

'The Most Immoral Country'

Clark also criticized what he called "the campaign of liberal America against celibacy."

He theorized that priests who have a tendency toward sexually abusing children — a group he pegged at 3% of the nation's clergy — were affected by a barrage of sinful images in society.

"Liberated sex is offered to people all day long, all evening long," he said. "There is nothing quite like it."

"We know — we won't mention it outside the cathedral — we are probably the most immoral country certainly in the Western hemisphere and maybe the larger circle because of the entertainment we suffer and what it's done to our [country's] morals ...," Clark said.

Christine Schubert of St. Paul dashed out of the cathedral midway through the homily. "I left because I realized I have no desire to be connected with the institution of the Catholic Church," said Schubert, 27. "I thought, wouldn't it be great if the entire church walked out?"

But few did. Most parishioners stayed, and many applauded Clark after his sermon.

Marianne Duddy, executive director of Dignity/USA, the nation's largest organization of gay Catholics, called Clark's comments linking the sex scandal with homosexuality "incredibly horrifying and irresponsible."

"This is a poor attempt to deflect attention away from the church's culpability for the sexual abuse of minors by priests and its attempt to cover it up for decades," she added.

But Catholic League President William Donohue praised Clark. "He makes a great deal of sense and to have this said so articulately by one of the brighter priests in the New York area is very encouraging," Donohue said.

"The internal problem in the church is a lack of governance and due to diligence," he added. "But there is no question about it — this is a societywide problem that goes way beyond the Catholic Church."

With Gretchen E. Weber

[glory]

You missed my point. It's about time someone pointed out that homosexuality is the problem here and yes it does extend beyond the church doors so in that regard it is a US problem and not just a Catholic one.

Your example is meaningless. I'm sure you condemn the misbehavior as a whole and not just in your own child right? So what is the difference between that and this? I'll help you..NONE!

[Almondjoy]

Well you have a good point.. but the fact that we keep "vegtables" alive merely points out that we like to cling near and dear to hope.. that their brain really is firing away and that they can sense things around them.. if when no brain activity is present some people jsut can't let go. It can also swing back to my point that while people on heart lung respirations are alive and show brain function a fetus in the earliest stages has no brain activity at all.

[ikanakattara]

Objections to abortion have very little to do with religion when you get right down to it. Atheist writer Nat Hentoff has been anti-abortion for years, because he realizes the simple biological fact that *humans beget humans.*

A person can't conceive anything else but a human being, even if that human being produced has a body consisting of only one cell. When the nucleus of the sperm cell fuses with the nucleus of the egg cell, you have a *new person.*

Brain function or sentience or appearance have nothing to do with it. People can only come from people.

[glory]

Agreed. Enough blame to go around.

[eastsider]

a fetus in the earliest stages has no brain activity at all

This is true, but has no bearing on the classification of the fetus as either human or alive.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

a fetus in the earliest stages has no brain activity at all.

Virtually all abortions take place after the beginning of brain activity.

[eastsider]

One is left with the argument that only "celibate" Catholic priests are the class of sex-starved adult males who seek sex from male teenagers.

The arguments you present and defeat are all straw-man arguments. The arguments that form a nexus between mandatory celibacy and ephebophilia in the diocesan priesthood are based on the former's having restricted the pool of otherwise qualified heterosexuals as well as having offered a respectable cover to the sexually confused and underdeveloped, thus contributing to -- not causing -- the hyperincidence of homosexuals and perverts within the diocesan system, which skewed demographic has in turn contributed both to the hyperincidence of sexual abuse of teenage boys and pederasty. Please note that these are not argument based on simple cause and effect but arguments based on having provided the right conditions for sexual immorality to flourish.

Moreover, absent the prerequisite of mandatory celibacy for the diocesan priesthood, sexual immorality in the diocesan priesthood would simply be a matter of individual responsibility and discipline; however, to the extent that the institutional church has made mandantory celibacy a prerequisite, which prerequisite has in turn contributed to the hyperincidence of sexual immorality in the diocesan priesthood, the sexual sins of a minority redound to the institutional church itself and undermine the authority and respect of the majority of diocesan priests who serve us so well in our parishes and schools.

[Alas]

You may be looking at the word "baptism" incorrectly. Let me give you an example if I may. When one is in his first fire fight, he is often referred to has having had his "baptism under fire". The baptism in the Roman Catholic church is on done to infants, by the sprinkeling of water upon them. It is nothing like those used in your example.

What I am pointing out is that baptism is not a means of salvation, that is through being Born Again, as stated very clearly by the Lord in John 3:3.

I have no problem with baptism, and as matter of fact, both recommend it and perform it, but only upon those making a decison to be the Lords and after having made that decison, ask to be baptised. At which time, I require the one being baptised to make a confession of faith and to give their testimony as well. A lot differant than the baptism of sprinkeling a bit of water on a sleeping infant who has no idea of what is going on.

[Alas]

Does not alter the fact that the thief on the cross had no chance of being baptised. Therefore baptism is not the way to salvation.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

re: straw-man arguments.

Tell that to the liberals making them. There can be theological discussions and debates about celibacy. Linking that to homosexual teenophilia cases, as libs and media journalists have done (rather than address homosexuality), implies that they think there is a connection. The idea that the Catholic priesthood causes a normal person to become a homosexual teenophile is absurd. If the men in question are normal and attractive, they would have no trouble finding agreeable females or prostitutes. But that's not what is being reported.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

re: "immorality in the priesthood."

It has more to do with the homosexual movement than with celibacy actually. I recommend Cardinal Medeiros' 1979 letter to the Vatican outlining the new homosexual subculture which was becoming apparent in the 1970s in Catholic seminaries.

[ArGee]

Marianne Duddy, executive director of Dignity/USA, the nation's largest organization of gay Catholics, called Clark's comments linking the sex scandal with homosexuality "incredibly horrifying and irresponsible."

Not untruthful, Ms. Duddy? And if it is not untruthful, how is that at all horrifying and irresponsible? Isn't supression of the truth the greatest horror and irresponsibility imaginable?

Tell me, Ms. Duddy, how many of these episodes of sexual molestation were between Priests and girls? Hmmmmmmm?

Shalom.

[eastsider]

I concur that the causal arguments connecting celibacy with perversion are absurdly naive and that they should be promptly defeated, although not at the expense of what IMO are the legitimate conditional arguments. My apologies for having misconstrued your post.

P.S. I spewed my tea when I read "teenophilia." LOL! : )

[katnip]

I respect your opinion but at the same time I think you ought to consider what your demands represent... what if Islam was the major religion here.. what if paganism was?

If they choose not it is not our place as Christians to force our beliefs into them.

LOL! You sound like the way I thought up till about 10 years ago.
What right does any man have to tell me what to do!
If Islam was the major religion here, we would no longer have the United States of America.
You would not have a computer. You probably would not even know how to read or write.
What has made this country what it is is it's Judeo/Christian values.
That means living by the 10 Commandments, ALL of them.
Throw our morality away and we will cease to be the most powerful nation in the world.

[Domestic Church]

"When Paul VI was plain old Archbishop Giovanni Battista Montini and Secretary of State under Pius XII, he deliberately disobeyed Pius XII's orders not to maintain unofficial diplomatic contacts with Communist countries. For his disobedience, he was sent to Milan as Archbishop in 1954, and was not appointed Cardinal. Considering the historical significance of the See of St. Ambrose, not being appointed Cardinal was a sign of the strongest disapproval. John XXIII, in his naivety, appointed him Cardinal after he was elected, and called the Council. Perhaps he came to regret both acts: some say his dying words were "Close the Council! Close the Council!" What has this got to do with the present crisis in the American Church? Everything."

Mega WOW! But are you sure JohnXXIII was just naive? So the Gramscian ties go to Paul VI ?!

[afraidfortherepublic]

...our duty is not to uphold his laws

That is not what my Church teaches. Otherwise there would be no reason why I couldn't lie, cheat, steal, or kill... You'd better re-think your Faith's teachings.

[Almondjoy]

Sure it does unless you have a definition for "alive" that everyone in the science community agrees upon.

[Almondjoy]

But I wasn't aruging for/against mid-term or late-term abortions now was I?

[ArGee]

There have probably always been about the same number of homosexuals in the world. Priest have been diddling little boys for a thousand years. Homosexuals are naturally attracted to the Church. The Church knows this, but they keep the celibacy thing for power reasons.

Each of these statements needs some support before they can be accepted.

I will agree with everyone here that the actions of a particular homosexual priest and his enabler are their own responsibilty. But I will also agree with those who have said the church should have kept the homosexuals out to begin with. Does the Boy Scouts have this kind of problem? Anyone want to guess why not?

Shalom.

[Almondjoy]

Uphold the laws and values for yourself.. not to determine who and who doesn't get to life up to those values.. otherwise you might have to go on a vindication sweep of your neighborhood and clean out all those porn stashes. :)