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Thank you for attempting to provide the biblical prophecy of the creation of a Jewish state. I now have a better understanding of why there is so much American support for the nation of Israel. I can blame the Proddies. You had said in a previous post that Revelations "expressly" says that Israel will be back in the land in the end times. Well....the end times bit you didn't really touch upon, and I hardly think that Revelation 12:1-6 "expressly" says anything about Israel. You are entitled to your interpretation. I would disagree, but the issue seems to be your link to the pope. What does the creation of an Israeli state have to do with Pius XII's "thwarting the will of God?" How do you know that God's will for the pope was not to oppose the creation of a Jewish state? And let me ask this. If the pope opposed the legalization of abortion, yet the legalization occurred, does that also mean that the pope "thwarted the will of God." My take on your take of what is God's will is whatever actually occurs. Therefore, Israel's existence is God's will. Abortion is God's will. Unless, I suppose, you are saying God's will is what occurs plus justification from a bible interpretation. But that is what makes personal interpretation so objectionable. One can justify pretty much anything they want. David Koresh certainly did. And with such fanciful imagery as a woman clothed in the sun... the sky is the limit. But thanks for trying; the pope didn't have that baggage (your interpretation) when he wrote the letter opposing Jewish statehood, and in hindsight he was spot on. The state of Israel has been nothing but a perpetual holocaust for the Jewish people. Frankly, I think your particular exegis is a result of the nation of Israel being created. I wonder if prior to 1945, Christians would have thought such a thing. Thanks agaiin.

Chuck. Your statement that Pius XXII was right to oppose the creation of Israel because...

"The state of Israel has been nothing but a perpetual holocaust for the Jewish people".

Is simply beyond preposterous. When modern Israel was created, the Jews had just gone through an event called "The Holocaust". SIX MILLION Jews were slaughtered at the hands of a supposedly civilized Western European Nation. Since the creation of the Jewish state, how many of them have ACTUALLY died violently? What percentage of population?

Israel is a free democratic land. Not ONE JEW is forced to live in Israel against their will. On the contrary, MILLIONS of them freely and voluntarily MIGRATED to Israel where they proudly live, raise their families, and fight for the land they LOVE. Are you actually suggesting that Israelis wish some catholic pope could have imposed HIS will on THEIR destiny?

Regarding exegesis, I call your attention again to the prophesy in Zechariah 12. Let's patiently go over it again, as I did in note # 55...

God says that on THAT day (in the FUTURE, Chuck -- we're dealing with Prophesy, remember) on THAT day, He would "make Jerusalem a heavy stone, a burden for the world.

The prophesy was given to Zechariah in 480 BC -- Jerusalem was destoyed in 70 AD. Jerusalem was never "a burden for the world" in that time frame. BUT IT IS TODAY.

Later, in the same prophesy, God says...

"Then (in the future) I will pour out (future tense) a spirit of grace and prayer on the family of David and on all the people of Jerusalem. They will look on me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as for an only son.

When did the people of Jerusalem "pierce ME" (God)? That would be Jesus, right Chuck? Notice "have piercED. PAST tense. POST 32 AD. God prophesies that ALL the people of Jerusalem would mourn for the One whom they PIERCED. When has that happened? It hasn't happened YET, right? And it CERTAINLY didn't happen between 32 AD when Christ was crucified, and 70 AD, when Jerusalem was destroyed. (And the vast majority of Jews rejected Christ and murdered His Apostles.)

So, what other logic can you derive from this, than God is prophesying a Jerusalem in the FUTURE, after the Curcifixion and Resurrection, which does NOT fit the Jerusalem of 32-70 AD. When God says something, you can't just good-naturedly shrug it off. God wants us to seek the meaning of His words.

But Pius XXII wanted Jerusalem to stay in the hands of ARABS. Pius XXII wanted the Jews to go to some piece of ground that had no Biblical historical relevance to them or God, and leave Jerusalem in the hands of MUSLIMS. ISLAM. The KORAN. If Pius had gotten his way, can you imagine how the Muslims would have danced in the streets? Saying "Allah has triumphed over the "god" of the Jews!"

I cannot help but assume that Pius was well aware of this prophesy in Zechariah. You may say that he had a different interpretation. But the words are clear enough that he had to at least TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION that the Prophesy was about a modern-day Israel/Jerusalem. Okay... before Pius went on record opposing the creation of Israel, (an event which he had to admit, at least had THE POTENTIAL to be a fulfillment of God's Holy Word, as given to Zechariah) did he pray about it? If so, did God first give him the go-ahead to oppose Israel, then DOUBLE-CROSS him?

Or did Pius just brazenly stick his nose into another people's destiny without even bothering to consult God, or His Holy Word? Or was there yet another motivation?