Jenin massacre uncovering

Australian Broadcasting Corporation ^ | April 19, 2002 8:08 | LINDA MOTTRAM

[Jurist]

This is a transcript of AM broadcast at 0800 AEST on local radio.

Jenin massacre uncovering

AM - Friday, April 19, 2002 8:08

LINDA MOTTRAM: To the Middle East and as more information comes out of the cities of Jenin and Nablus on the West Bank, it's becoming clear that Israel will have to answer allegations that it's committed war crimes and crimes against humanity during its occupation of the West Bank.

One British forensic expert says the evidence points to a massacre by Israeli forces. That expert is Professor Derrick Pounder from Amnesty International who's inspected the devastation and examined some of the now rotting bodies that are still being pulled from the rubble in Jenin.

He says the truth will come out, just as it did in Bosnia and in Kosovo before and the UN envoy, Terje Roed-Larsen, who has also inspected the Jenin refugee camp says the sight is horrific beyond belief and that Israel's failure to allow in rescue teams was morally repugnant.

The ABC's foreign affairs editor Peter Cave reports from Jerusalem.

PETER CAVE: As he picked his way through a pile of rubble the size of several football fields which was once a crowded ghetto of houses in the refugee camp, Terje Roed-Larsen was clearly taken aback by the scale of the devastation, the bodies and the knowledge that many who died underneath were buried alive for days.

TERJE ROED-LARSEN: I think I can speak for all in the UN delegation here that we are shocked, this is horrifying beyond belief. Just seeing this area looks like as if there's been an earthquake here and the stench of death telling its own story around here.

PETER CAVE: Mr Roed-Larsen has called for a full withdrawal of Israeli forces and a lifting of a curfew in the area, not only to allow the retrieval of the dead but also to provide urgent help for those still alive.

DERRICK POUNDER: The stench of decaying corpses are all over the place. I saw personally an about 12-year-old boy being dug out, his body totally destroyed. I saw two brothers digging out of the rubble their father and their brothers.

There are people all over the place digging with their hands, looking for their relatives and dear ones. It's a horrible scene.

The devastation is nearly total at the heart of the refugee camp and we assess that about 2,000 people are now without roof over their heads. There's lack of food, there's lack of water, the electricity grids are destroyed, the water is cut.

It's a catastrophic situation particularly in the refugee camp but also in the whole town of Jenin.

PETER CAVE: Despite growing international outrage over the apparent massacre, the Israeli Government remains unrepentant. Foreign Ministry spokesman Gideon Meir.

GIDEON MEIR: Jenin is a symbol of Palestinian brutalitism. Jenin is a capital of suicide bombers. Jenin, there was a huge infrastructure of terror. We went there to fight the terrorist cells to eliminate terror. There was heavy fighting there and great fighting there. We lost 23 of our boys. Jenin is not a recreation area, Jenin is not a resort.

LINDA MOTTRAM: Israel's Foreign Ministry spokesman Gideon Meir, that report from Peter Cave in Jerusalem.

[robbinsj]

Lent:

I do so much take offense at your misrepresentations such as the following:

"Oh but it is fun to exploit these sailors isn't it?"

Surely you remember reading the contributions to FR posts on the U.S. Liberty by those so called exploited sailors who survived the U.S. Liberty attack. They were universally appreciative that the details of the attack were posted at FR and thankful that they have not been forgotten.

I am an American who does not support deliberate attack on the U.S. by anyone! You probably would not understand this as you are just a Canadian if I recall.

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w.t.sherman: Thanks for the post!

[Motherhood IS a career]

Despite 9/11, ladders remain a larger threat than terrorism to the life and limb of Americans.

Yeah, tell that to the victims of the World Trade Center. I'm sure they'll appreciate your special kind of ... wisdom.

[Motherhood IS a career]

Yes! Thank you.

[Motherhood IS a career]

A "palestinian mother" breeding a child in order to have a martyr (and this is literal fact - mothers have bragged of becoming pregnant for that specific purpose) is out of a choice.

Thank you.

Who was it that jumped down my throat about killing "innocent" women and children? Please refer to the above.

[Lent]

Take offense all you want. There has been separate and exclusive posts on the USS Liberty. I find it gratuitous and crass for this poster to raise it on this thread and tie it to his gratuitous comments on Israel. If that's the kind of posting you find acceptable then I'll consider the bar lowered to gutter exploitation by yourself.

[Publius6961]

All I know is that Amnesty International was SILENT in the aftermath of the WTC massacre.

Also when when 20,000+ "palestinians" were killed over a few months during the Black September expulsion...

These clowns think nobody has a memory?

[Publius6961]

Do you get your links pre-done from the muslim sites? or do you assemble them yourself?

[Publius6961]

My mother used to tell me "Be careful who you pick as your enemies. People often end up acting more like them than their friends."

Only if you wish to prevail.
Dying pure and morally unblemished is a personal choice.
Making that choice for an entire country is presumptuous beyond belief.

[Publius6961]

This is a conflict about 2,000 years in the making and stopping will not happen over night.

When a response begins with an outright lie (or hyperbolic exaggeration) it sort of makes what follows superfluous.

Seeing that Islam didn't even exist until the middle of the 7th century, your "2000" years shows a tenuous grasp of both history and simple arithmetic...

[liberalism=failure]

For the very simple reasons that private individuals, by definition, cannot commit war crimes.

What "private individuals are you talking about? The suicide bombers had the backing of Hamas Islamic Jihad and the PA (which IS the government and not private)

So sorry , but *BUZZ* wrong

But hey, you keep trying, and maybe someday you'll find a rationalization for all the double standards needed to condemn Israel and let the ragheads off the hook. But Until that day, you'll just be a blame Israel firster, terrorist apologist.

[Publius6961]

With its similarities to the Katyn Forest massacre, Jenin will resound as a battle cry across many generations.

If you can make a comparison between the Katyn forest massacre and Jenin, I'm afraid you will have to repeat the third grade.
You really think most of the regulars here don't know all the details of the Katyn massacre? LOL

[D-fendr]

This "camp" (small town actually) was an industrial town for murderers. The citizens could kick them or leave themselves. Those who stayed were in the line of fire - justified fire from IDF in self defense.

The whole situation of these permanent refugee camps is purposesly to fester and grow such terrorism. If you don't want more, call on the Arab states to take the "refugees."

Jordan is the most likely place, however, you may remember, Arafat was run out of there.

[D-fendr]

Where else in the world are there refugees for fifty years? Wasn't 85% of the Palestine Mandate enough to find them a home?

[bjcintennessee]

A big AMEN to your post #22. The civilians in Jenin were forewarned by the IDF and encouraged to seek refuge in neighboring villages. It can therefore be assumed that those who remained behind were either armed and shooting at the IDF, or they had the same suicidal tendencies that they encouraged in their children in the homicide bombings.

One report today told of a 12-year-old(?) who was dug out of the rubble and claimed to have been there for 10 days. Further investigation revealed that he was a pick-pocket who had buried himself beneath some rubble for the publicity. When the youngest among them are taught to lie and distort the truth, how can we be expected to believe anything they say -- especially knowing that their goal is to sway international public opinion??

There was no massacre here, only deaths attributable to a battle with a minimal percentage of collateral damage (those civilians too ignorant or too stubborn to leave when warned).

[The Raven]

Escalation of a war. Never would have happened if the PLO hadn't started it

[Motherhood IS a career]

Yes, thank you for bringing this information to light.

For more on this subject, please see Brutal, yes. Massacre, no.

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Palestinians have NOTHING TO LOSE. The status quo is not acceptable to them.

That's Israel's fault? 98% of the Pali's live in territory controlled by the PA. Arafat spends all the money the U.S. and the E.U. give him on weapons instead of improving the lives of the Pali's and their misery is Israel's fault?

I suppose Cuba's misery is our fault and not Castro's?

[Toddsterpatriot]

Despite 9/11, ladders remain a larger threat than terrorism to the life and limb of Americans.

Good point, we should bomb the ladder factories too.

[anapikoros]

The Court Transcripts of the Survivors' evidence in Naval Board inquiries is now declassified and it doesn't gel with what they are saying out of court when they are sticking with their buddies

Nearly all their arguments revolve around whether or not a flag was flying and that's it. Cristol has uncovered gun camera pics from the attack planes and blows this argument out of the water. Assuming that a flag was visible it was reasonable for the Israelis to assume it was a "false flag", a tactic the Egyptians had used previously and especially since the USN had told the Israeli's they had no ships within a 100 miles. The US Naval Command genuinely believed the ship was out of the area not knowing that NSA had diverted the orders. But that's another story which lies at the heart of the cover-up. Get hold of Cristol's book - released this month - and analyse the facts and analysis and then have your argument with Cristol.

[anapikoros]

All your quotes from NSA raise the old saying - "I fear she doth protest to much.

The US Naval Command had ordered the Liberty out of the area and had informed the Israelis there were no US ships within 100 miles.

The Liberty was a NSA assett and for reasons which are to long to go into and not relevant as to the attack I won't spell tghem out ATM.

The attempted cover-up by the NSA revolves around them having diverted and marked "not urgent" the signals sent to the Liberty to vacate the area. The signals mysteriously were routed via Singapore so as to deliberately keep the Liberty on station.

All NSA agitprop after the event was designed to absolve themselves and keep the heat on Israel. Being such an active participant in the incident makes any statements from NSA people more than suspect.

As to all the other proponents mentioned they all have their own political canoes to paddle and I can give you an equal number of authoratitive voices who agree that it was a mistake.

But answer me one question - why didn't the Israelis complete their attack when they could easily have sunk the Liberty?