It's time to snap out of Arab fantasy land {Steyn}

National Post ^ | April 19 2002 | Mark Steyn

[beckett]

Was this not a conscious decision on the part of Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the so-called Father of Pakistan? My understanding is that Jinnah demanded a separate Muslim state, as opposed to the multi-cultural state that Gandhi and his followers preferred.

Once the partition was agreed to, a massive population transfer followed.

Provincial pressures, however immense, should have been resisted by Mountbatten et al.

[anapikoros]

Do you think the mass of Palestenians care where they live? They're just tired of being in refugee camps because their brothers won't allow them to live there The "refugee camps" are little different from the slums which the poor throughout the Arab world live in. Camp is a misnomer - where are the tents and temporary shelters?

Many, if not the majority would resist being moved out of the "camps" because whilst they are classified as "refugees" the UN feeds, educates and medicates them for free. Priveleges they would immediately lose upon moving out - and what would they move out to except another slum.

The UN is responsible for perpetuating the problem 3 or 4 generations later and no doubt will continue to do so for the coming generations.

[monkeyshine]

"Whoever thinks differently is deluded."

LOL. Right on the nose.

[Anamensis]

At this time, if the Arab nations had the stomach for war with Israel, we would be in the middle of it already. They are waiting for the kangaroo court of the UN to complete it's destabilization and disarming of Israel before they will finally commit their military.

What do you bet the UN tries to snap up Sharon for "war crimes"? I can foresee a scenario in which this set-up gets played out again and again: suicide bombers, Israeli incursions, war crimes accusations, president snatched by the UN, until Israel gets the president that the UN wants it to have: one that will agree to anything, including "right of return." And once that happens, it ends with a whimper, not with a bang. And it won't even make the mainstream news.

[Anamensis]

Civilian populations can be swayed in their opinions by their leaders. The Germans weren't Nazis before Hitler, and after the war was over, they weren't Nazis, either. You can think of countless examples where a population quickly reversed its opinion on something like this.

I don't know if I agree with this, Europeans were anti-semitic before Hitler and they are extremely anti-semitic now. Oh, they've closed down the crematoriums and whatnot, but now they work through the UN to make Israel as vulnerable as possible.

[Toddsterpatriot]

bump.

[The Vast Right Wing]

And the response will be nuclear.

[My Identity]

Exterminating them is not an option. Neither is shipping them to another country. Nobody wants them

A "solution":

Thanks to TomGuy for much of the above.

MORAL CLARITY
An honorable, moral solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Isn't the only honorable way to "solve" the Arab-Israeli conflict through the use "ethnic cleansing?" (And by that term I mean the polite, but forceful removal of all 3 million Pali from Eretz Yisrael -- which is not "genocide", as some on the Left misuse the term.) Let me explain.

The current wave of "suicide" bombers (a misnomer, since their primary goal is not suicide but the mass murder of civilians) is unprecedented and unrelenting. But it should not be unexpected. It is the direct (and obviously planned) result of brainwashing that started with Pali children as young as kindergarteners. Look at the faces of the babies in the pictures above. What vomitous horror - visiting this upon their heads. What unspeakable evil.

The Palestinian descent into barbarism does not have some dimly-lit origin. The homicidal-bombers are not some unforseen phenomenom that sprung forth from the "hopelessness" of the populace (as the PA "leaders" would have us believe). They are part and parcel of the war machine created by the PA to wreak systematic havoc on Israel. Someone paid to have the Pali youth trained -- or more accurately, brainwashed -- in "martyrdom". Someone paid to have the explosives acquired and the bombs made. Someone paid to have weak spots in Israeli defenses searched out. Someone paid to have these weapons stored and then distributed to the homicidal-bombers. Someone paid to have videotapes made of the bombers' farewell messages. Someone paid to have these homicidal-bombers transported across security lines. Someone paid the family tens of thousands of dollars specifically for the "martyrdom" of their children. And, as we are now learning, those paymasters include Yassir Arafat, Saddam Hussein and the Saudi elite.

The PA has not been preparing its people for peace, but radicalizing them for the sole purpose of destroying Israel. The PA has appointed militant clerics who preach hate and "martyrdom". By doing so, they have knowingly turned this into a religious war, one in which compromise is heretical. And in doing so, the Palestinians have rejected the Oslo premise that the conflict is about borders, about which compromise is required. Indeed, as Henry Kissinger has noted:

In reality, the number of Palestinian leaders... who want peace in the Western sense -- as a point after which the world lives free of tensions with a consciousness of reconciliation -- is minuscule. The fundamental schism is between those who want to bring about the destruction of Israel by continuing the present struggle, and those who believe that an agreement now would be a better strategy to rally forces for the ultimate showdown later on.

The result of Arafat's strategy of hatred is now known: Pali society cannot co-exist in peace with Israel. Recent polls tell the story clearly. Over 87% of the Palis support the murder of Israeli men, women, and children, even babies. Given these numbers and the underlying religious fervor, there is NO POSSIBILITY of a negotiated settlement that would be honored by the Palis within their lifetime. Arafat has filled the Palis with visceral hate to prepare them for unrelenting war. He has brainwashed an entire generation of youngsters to become terror-bombers. He has unleashed almost 10 years of official "judeo-nazi" indoctrination on the Pali people. Arafat has committed crimes not only against the entire populace of Israel, but against Palestinians and their children as well. Truly, these are Crimes against Humanity.

Current conditions make ethnic cleansing not only justified, but morally required. As antithetical as it sounds to liberal ears, ethnic cleansing is literally the only humane solution. To pursue a negotiated settlement is akin to locking a tiger and a human with a gun in the same cage. Assign the roles to whomever you wish, but the result is the same. Someone in the cage is eventually going to be killed, maybe both.

The world community's role in this to date has been to create this inhumane spectacle, this caged, semitic death match. The world community's response going forward ought to be the equivalent of an "Allied invasion of Nazi Germany" because nothing less will suffice to rid the world of this monstrosity. Eject all Arab peoples from Gaza and the West Bank (because once you eliminate the terrorists, their supporters and their families, virtually nobody is left). Then round up the PA "leaders" (including "clerics" and "teachers"), and put them on trial for their Crimes against Humanity. If they are found guilty, hang them in public.

And to the extent that this PA policy was conducted, funded, supported, promoted, or otherwise enabled by their Arab bretheren (notably Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia) then it is incumbent upon these countries to pay for their sins by taking in the Palis. Arabs created this mess. Let Arabs bear the toll for the human misery they created.

Even Tom Friedman of the New York Times has come around, finally grasping the global ramifications of Arafat's evil:

"...all they [the Palestinian leaders] can agree on is what they want to destroy, not what they want to build... Let's be very clear: Palestinians have adopted suicide bombing as a strategic choice... This threatens all civilization because if suicide bombing is allowed to work in Israel, then, like hijacking and airplane bombing, it will be copied and will eventually lead to a bomber... with a nuclear device threatening entire nations."

What is needed is the elimination of this cancer on humanity. End it quickly before more innocent lives are lost. End it now or it will escalate to Weapons of Massnbsp;Destruction. End it clearly and with finality so that there is absolutely NO ambiguity that civilization finds this abhorent. If nothing else, as a sop to liberal sensibilities, end it for the children. Moral clarity demands nothing less.

[Dog Gone]

Okay, let me give you a couple more examples. We've fought against the British in two wars. We hated and feared the Japanese so much, that we rounded up American citizens because they were "Japs" and sent them to something similar to a concentration camp.

The Italians were fascists. The Japanese thought their emperor was a deity. The Chinese were a closed society for thousands of years.

People change. Often it takes a generation or two to completely reverse old animosities and doctrine, but they can occur very rapidly.

[Rocko]

Bump.

[Anamensis]

I understand what you're saying, but anti-semitism goes way back and, I'm afraid, way forward. It seems to me that Christianity and Islam both hold the seeds for a hatred of Jews simply because they spring from Judaism but wish to displace it. Judaism represents the old regime and the two evangelical religions it spawned represent the revolutionaries. As we know, the first thing revolutionaries do is kill off all the sympathizers of the regime they've dethroned. Now, Christianity seems to have calmed in the last few hundred years, but Islam is becoming more enraged rather than less. It doesn't help that the collectivists have catered to them, and fed their sense of aggrievedness (if that's the word. If that's a word at all, LOL).

[Dog Gone]

I'm not Jewish, and I'm sure I don't know as much about anti-semitism as many here. I've primarily viewed the Middle East in political terms, and that's certainly not the entire perspective. I don't know how much of the conflict there is based on anti-semitism and how much is anti-Zionist.

Perhaps it's indistinguishable. Certainly both elements exist.

But it's not as if Arabs and Jews can't can't get along together in peace. They had for centuries prior to 1947.

It seems to me that if a political settlement were achieved that both sides bought into, it would go a long way toward making things stable. I'm under no illusions that there are Palestinians, and even Europeans, who wish that every Jew on the planet were dead, but that will never end, just like racism among other groups is persistent.

Unfortunately, we are very long way, it seems, from seeing whether I'm correct or not.

[Anamensis]

I appreciate your thoughtful reply, but it does spark three responses that I want to post.

1.) I'm not Jewish either, was raised Baptist, turned atheist, and never even knew anyone Jewish till I was 26. So I have no dog in this fight, other than the feeling that the people who hate Jews and the people who hate American capitalists are the same people.

2.) A lot of people distinguish between Judaism and Zionism, and I always wonder: why is it that demanding a home for Palestinians is "social justice" and demanding a home for Jews (far more endangered and persecuted historically) is "Zionism"? I still don't understand that. No one calls Native Americans nasty names for wanting their reservations, why differentiate with this "Zionist" tag?

3.) From what I hear, the Jews and the Arabs did NOT "get along" for thousands of years before 1947. Any Jewish (excuse me, "Zionist") site on the web lists the terrorist attacks launched against Jews starting in about 1922. And my readings of the Koran and my readings of the various websites convince me that Jews were allowed to live in Muslim theocracies only as "dhimmies" who were considered lesser people, did not have full rights as citizens, and had to pay extra taxes. In other words, they got treated like crap and as long as they put up with it, they lived in "peace". This is the same sort of "peace" blacks had in 1930s Alabama. Keep your head down, boy, and say "yassuh" and "nossuh" and you can live in "peace." And oh, by the way, when Hitler starts slaughtering all your relatives, the Mufti of Jerusalem (Arafat's uncle, from what I gather) will go to the SS and ask them to drop a few bombs on his Jewish problem too.

[Dog Gone]

You may be right about the Jews living under the Ottoman Empire. The only things I have read about that were rather conclusory, and essentially only statements of opinion. I'll defer to you on that.

As far as the Zionist label, I'm under the impression that it's one that Jews have adopted for themselves, and rather than being some sort of disparaging label, it's essentially a rallying cry for Jewish nationalism. I don't view it either positively or negatively. It just is. Again, I always welcome informed viewpoints that correct any incorrect perceptions that I may have.

[Salman]

bump

[Nam Vet]

850,000 expelled Jews?

My recollection is much higher. Plus all of their property was never paid for. They landed in Israel with only what they managed to carry and possibly smuggle out. I'm a Christian, but have, for MANY years, been frustrated by the world's reaction to Israel. MORE than enough land has been given to the Arabs. If it were my call and I was Israel, I would throw all them pali bastards out. Then, thumb my nose at everyone. If or when the PEACEFUL ones wanted to return, they could on a case by case basis. (or stay at the outset) I would let all arab nations know the HUGE losses they would EACH face in the event they opened a war. I would also let them know that ALL territory seized in any war given by God's Word in the Bible would NEVER be returned. That is NON-negotiable.

Nam Vet

[Nam Vet]

Sorry to tell ya Bud, but the muslims HONESTLY weighing TWO sides when it comes to Israel must top out at a maximum of 10%. That goes for all of the other arab countries too. ( the above comments do not include Turkey) If I recollect correctly, we usually agree on most things. Not sure, but seems so. Anyway, take care.
SPECIAL NOTE TO ALL FREEPERS: I capitalize those who I respect ONLY.

Nam Vet

[Nam Vet]

"Expelling the muslims is the final solution. Israel will take out any government that poses a threat to its survival. Just ask Sadam Hussein what happened to his nuclear plants! I would expect the USA to do the same thing with any nation that attempted to destroy it. Perhaps Afghanistan is a good example for Israel of how to defeat an enemy. Israel should ignore Colin Powel and do as we do not as we say."

We're on the SAME page Bud.

Nam Vet

[Dog Gone]

I'm still at a loss to understand how displacing the millions of Palestinians who live in the West Bank and Gaza is a final solution. It somehow seems based on the assumption that if that happened, the Palestinians (not to mention the other nations in the regions) would accept that and everyone would live happily ever after.

If you can explain to me why that assumption is true, I will gladly begin advocating your position.

[leilani]

Pokey, TKS for the Steyn Ping. An extraordinary entry from our guy; makes you just shake your head with astonishment that the silly socialites who make up the Pulitzer Committee gave "the prize" to Thomas Friedman. THOM F'inRiedman? Excuse me? The same gullible idiot who bought hook,line & sinker the bogus Saudi "peace plan"? Oh yeah, the Pulitzer is still a "prestigious" distinction, only if you have not already come to the inevitable conclusion that Robert Fisk might very probably have a slight touch of Jakob-Kreutzfeld (mad-cow) disease.