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Mayhaps we define accountability diiferently. I would say that fathers have the worst of it once the child is born: their joint custody rights are not vaidated, and no one offers them the equal opportunity to be a primary caregiver to the children they sired. If you believe that things are "one-sided and unfair" in such a way as would in your view disadvantage women, I'd be interested to hear your extrapolation of that contention.

I am all for fathers having equal rights and obligations in parenting. I've also already mentioned I favor a paternal veto on abortion. There ARE inequities to fathers that need to be rectified in our divorce/custody laws. But I don't think this has much to do with abortion because by and large IMO women don't abort in order to prevent fathers from parenting.

Lorianne: ...which included being relegated to a lower status in society when they pro-created relative to men who pro-created.

How so "a lower status"?

Oh come now. You know very well the history of disparity between women who have pro-created out of wedlock and men who have. There is a long long history of inequitable treatement, punishment, retribution, etc ... even death... against women who have pro-created while the man is rarely even reprimanded. This is the tradition that lead to infanticide in earlier times. And it still goes on today in other forms... you hear it all over these threads where men demonize women (in the vilest terms) when in fact the woman did exactly the same thing the man did, she had sex. There are plenty of people who want to punish the woman for having sex but not the man. Pregnancy gives them all the ammunition they need. To them "pregnancy" proves that the woman is "at fault" though this makes no logical sense, they don't care. Irrational scapegoating becomes the major goal. Is it any wonder many women will render themselves un-pregnant in the face of such harsh criticism of "pregnancy" (as opposed to equal criticism between the parties)?

In additon, girls/women who are parents are "expected" to sacrifice education, career, etc. to a degree unequal to the expectaion on fathers. If this is by mutual agreement I see no problem, but the consensus, especially in OOW conception situations is that the female has screwed up her life and the male hasn't; she will pay, he will not. And society strictly enforces that as code and makes sure it will happen. Is it any surprise many women abort rather than submit to this harrassment? What do you think the "right to privacy" was all about?

Having the opportunity to stay home all day and be a primary parent while your spouse pays all your bills is an immensely advantaged position not traditionally offered to men.

What a rosy picture you paint! Again if this is by mutual agreement fine, I agree. If so, the employed spouse is not "paying all the bills" of the other spouse .... they are dividing up the tasks at hand by mutual agreement. Your wordage devalues the stay at home parent by casting them in the role of supplicant for their room and board and cushy "lifestyle" when in fact most stay at home parents work as much as the employed parent does.

Lorianne: ... women must demand equal status regardless of her pro-creative status. Abortion masks the underlying problem. Abortion only temporarily sweeps that inequality under the rug.

What would you call "equal status" in contrast to "inequality"?

When a child is concieved, right away there is an expectation by men, women, society .... that both parents will share equally in the responsibility and obligations to the child-to-be and both will share equally in any sacrifices which may have to be made if the conception occurs at a less than opportune time. That means if there is a conception to teenage parents, both the boy and the girl will have 50/50 accountability and responsibility to the child. That would be "equal status". Unequal status is the expectation that it is the girl/woman who must lose-out (which is what we preach to young girls), who must be "punished" for the act TWO people took part in. Telling girls/women they WILL be unequally held accountable in unintended/unwanted conception situations and that they MUST accept this unequal treatement as their fate ... is a major reason why we have abortion.

When a child is concieved, right away there is an expectation by men, women, society .... that both parents will share equally in the responsibility and obligations to the child-to-be and both will share equally in any sacrifices which may have to be made if the conception occurs at a less than opportune time. That means if there is a conception to teenage parents, both the boy and the girl will have 50/50 accountability and responsibility to the child. That would be "equal status".

I agree with all of that 100%. Perhaps we're not as far apart as either of us have perceived to this point. Still...

Unequal status is the expectation that it is the girl/woman who must lose-out (which is what we preach to young girls), who must be "punished" for the act TWO people took part in. Telling girls/women they WILL be unequally held accountable in unintended/unwanted conception situations and that they MUST accept this unequal treatement as their fate ...

A) You see the current expectation that the mother will sacrifice career and education to be the primary caregiver as unfair to her. O.K. I'd love to see a societal expectation that fathers will spend equal time---and be OBLIGATED to spend equal time---with all children they father. Equal responsibility.

B) In turn, I see the current expectation that the father will be just a bankbook, working to support the child without the legally right to be an equal caregiver/parent. So, similarly to the above, I'd love to see a societal expectation that mothers be OBLIGATED to provide the same percentage of their income to supporting child/family as the father is.

So how would you suggest the imbalances in A and B be rectified simultaneously?